What is Sustainability in 2025

Transcript

Sheldon Young
Welcome to No Footprints, a podcast about impact. I’m Sheldon.

Jason Moreau
And I’m Jason.

Sheldon Young
And we are here together for our second episode, Jason. Very exciting.

Jason Moreau
It’s one more than we had the other day.

Sheldon Young
It is. It is exciting. We have done 100% more than episode one.

Jason Moreau
That’s always great.

Sheldon Young
That percent increase. It is. Yeah.

It gets smaller and smaller as life goes on. But anyways. Yeah.

So we had our great first episode. So as we mentioned in our trailers in previous episode, we are going to do two episodes a month. One is going to feature an interview, which was our last episode with the wonderful Paul Shapiro.

And today we’re going to kind of pick a topic and we’re going to kind of focus on that. And we hope to do a different one every month that kind of hits on something we think would be interesting to talk about in the world of sustainability. And you know, the goal is to not make these, you know, master class deep dive kind of things, but really kind of hit on things that maybe a lot of people just don’t know about, right?

Or things have changed and there’s a different, you know, sentiment in the world and, or it’s just like, Hey, I’ve heard of that, but I don’t really know what it is. And I kind of take, I don’t know what you Jason, I kind of take a note of when I talk to people about sustainability, what are they asking about? Or if I say something and they don’t know it, that’s kind of a hint for me.

Okay. Maybe we can talk about that.

Jason Moreau
Yeah, exactly. Or as I’m reading and trying to educate myself, cause I am not qualified to teach a master class on this at this point. So that’s good that we’re not doing that.

Yeah. Just sort of the, the things that make me open up another tab on my browser, like, Oh, I don’t quite know what that is. Now I need to go down that rabbit hole.

Yeah, exactly.

Sheldon Young
Absolutely. So I think we, we picked today’s topic is super high level, just stepping back and saying, okay, look, sustainability, that word gets thrown around a lot and it gets used in so many different ways and it evolves. And so what does it kind of mean now in, in 2025 where we are today?

Or at least, you know, from our vantage points, what does it mean?

Jason Moreau
Yep.

Sheldon Young
Yeah.

Jason Moreau
Yep.

Sheldon Young
So, um, let’s just kind of start with a couple of questions to ourselves. So why do we even think sustainability is worth talking about these days? So what do you think?

Jason Moreau
Well, I think it’s exactly what you said, where it tends to be this word that people feel has importance and weight to it, but it feels squishy to sort of try and define. And so I think, and then for our purposes, uh, in our business life, um, understanding the intersection of sustainability, what it means from a, an environmental impact standpoint, from a profitability standpoint, from a people standpoint, right. Sort of like balancing all of these concerns, um, just becomes really, I think critical, but also it can feel immense in terms of where do you start?

Sheldon Young
I, that’s a, I think that’s really kind of spot on. I mean, we all know that, you know, resources aren’t infinite and we, and we see impact in everyday life, right? We walk around and we see it, we feel it, um, you know, stuff is changing whether we like it or not.

And whatever the reason is, uh, we have to step back and say, okay, look, most of us will look at it and say, there are things we can do to help make things better. And so how do we do that? And so I think the reason we chose to talk about this topic and why I think sustainability is still so important is a lot of folks still don’t know how to make it real.

I mean, they say, well, it’s my little, my little thing I do every day, really going to help, or, you know, should I talk to the people I buy whatever from and say, Hey, I would like you to be more sustainable. Right. Yeah, I think, I do think it’s important because I think when you start looking at the power of multiplying, uh, little efforts, uh, you know, it becomes tremendously impactful in the long run.

And you know, it’s a whole snowball effect. If one little thing starts going and you say, Hey, look, I can make one little change and Hey, if a thousand little changes of that magnitude are made, that’s a pretty big deal. And a compounding effect, a thousand percent.

Right. And like in our world, you know, it’s something as simple as, Hey, look, changing one little valve out. Yeah.

That’s not a big deal. It’s, you know, it’s a few gallons every time. Oh, what’s the big deal?

Well, you have 300 of them and you’re doing this multiple times a day. And when you add it all up, it’s, you know, one, your, your one little facility is, you know, a couple million gallons of stuff every year that’s going down a drain and it turns in the wastewater. All of those things.

And impact is just about identification and putting your thumb on a possible solution and just taking a little step. It doesn’t have to be monumental. And I think that’s what people struggle with sometimes.

Cause when I speak to people in, in the, you know, the food, water, dairy and pharma space where I, where I live, I sometimes will ask them about their sustainability goals and they’ll have them kind of on their big, you know, website page with all the reports and stuff. And then they’ll have what kind of projects, but while we’re looking at doing this huge, massive mega scale thing, that’s really good. I have hit our greenhouse gases.

Great. Why haven’t you done it yet? Well, it’s really, really expensive and it’s really big and it’s really hard.

And there’s a lot of engineering, a lot of barriers to get by and we’re having trouble justifying it. And I think sometimes if, if people jump into that immediate, I have to do the biggest thing possible and you meet resistance to it, it can screech it to a halt. And so I don’t know what you think, but when I think about sustainability, you have to look at it as, okay, what are some easy wins?

What are some little things I can do? And then progress that through to medium size and big things as we get there and plan that and celebrate those small things too.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I think it’s really easy to compare yourself to some idealized future state where you’ve got it all figured out and then go, Oh yeah. I don’t even know how we, how we get there.

Right. Instead of just starting with what can we do today? That’s a little bit better than yesterday.

Um, I, I, from a personal standpoint, the, the thing that I connect this to is sort of, um, like a health and wellness journey, right? Like I can stop, uh, adding, you know, uh, three tables, you know, three, three spoons of sugar to my coffee, right? Let’s, let’s start there.

That’s, that’s healthier. Then I can, then I can start adding fruits and vegetables. Then I can say, can I commit to a five or a 10 minute walk every day?

Right? Like, so I think it’s important to realize where you’re starting on a particular journey, exactly to your point, celebrating those small wins, committing to those, seeing the compounding effects. And then all of a sudden you are the type of.

A person or organization that can make those bigger jumps, right? Because you’ve, you’ve developed that, uh, essentially commitment and that, that muscle almost. Yeah.

Um, so yeah, that’s, that’s how I see it. And yeah, too many people allow this sort of future state to prevent them from just getting started today.

Sheldon Young
I think that’s a really great insight there that Jason, you got me thinking there’s a book I read a while ago. I believe it’s called switch. Uh, and I, I can’t remember if it’s chip and Dan Heath or not.

I read a lot of their books. I think it might be there’s may not be look it up if we want to, but it’s called switch and it’s all about exactly what you’re saying and around, um, making small changes and one of the stories that I hope I don’t get it too wrong here. Uh, I think it was one of the States, I believe it was West Virginia was trying to make a change in, uh, their state’s obesity rate and they were thinking all kinds of big things you could do, giant things you could do.

Right. Well, well, they kind of landed on what if we just ask people to drink skim milk? Cause he looked at some of the drivers behind it.

And honestly that it, it worked, it worked. They said, you know, Hey, just try drinking skim milk. It was a change that was manageable.

It was a change that was not too big of a separation from where people are in their current state.

Jason Moreau
Right. It’s not stop drinking milk. It’s just change.

Right. Milk.

Sheldon Young
Right, right, right, right. And, you know, and again, I’ll jump back to our guest last time. Paul Shapiro was like, he doesn’t expect the world to stop eating meat overnight.

Right. That’s too big of a lift. Right, exactly.

And so sustainability is very much that way as well, I feel, because it is change management. We all know it’s great. And we all would love to do more of it in our life, but the way you achieve it is not necessarily, you know, taking that, that big giant leap immediately.

You have to build your organization readiness for that. You have to build your, your thinking and your capabilities to execute on a sustainability journey first. And so, uh, you know, as, as why sustainability is important, I think we all kind of realize how you get it done is where I think there’s that deviation path, you know, uh, some people are able to jump in and get a lot done right away.

Fantastic. I would posit those, those cultures already had a sustainable mindset built in where others are coming from farther back. And so, uh, you know, as you start on a sustainability journey, finding those, those baby steps to move you towards a greater good, um, is frequently gonna, gonna serve you better.

Um, so, you know, yeah, go ahead.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. Well, I was just going to say, and I’m, I’m hopeful that some of the interviews, the stories that we share on this podcast are our vehicle to allow some of those people who might be a bit farther along on their journey to share what those, what those beginning stepping stones might be for somebody who’s, who’s not quite there. Right.

And so illuminating that path, but also encouraging people to, to sort of get on that path when and where possible. Um, cause yeah, I, I mean, I, we all start somewhere and I think it’s just important to start.

Sheldon Young
That’s great. That you’re, you’re, I agree a thousand percent. So I think I’ve said that twice a thousand percent.

So I believe you, maybe it’s 2000%. I agree with you. I mean, let me check the math.

Jason Moreau
Yes, yes. The math checks out.

Sheldon Young
Um, so I, one of the things that I’m looking down my list of things to talk about this episode. And, and one of the things I wanted to kind of bring up is, you know, defining, you know, we talked a little bit about defining sustainability and how do you do that? Uh, one of the things I always point people to when they’re trying to understand sustainability in a larger perspective, you know, not just, Hey, you know, one simple thing.

Hey, I’ve got to use less greenhouse gas or less water. Okay. Yeah.

That’s a part of it. It’s important. The UN United nations has what’s called sustainable development goals, and there’s 17 of them.

Uh, so wow. 17. Well, it seems a lot more than those two or three just listed.

Yeah, it is. Um, if you’re not familiar with those, I do recommend looking at them because what they are is a global, um, entity that have kind of come together and said, Hey, if we want a more sustainable future, a more sustainable world, here’s our, some, here are some ways that we can get there. And here are what we feel are the building blocks to do that.

And they include thing, things like water, air, land climate, of course, but it’s also about hunger, education, quality work, equality. Uh, all of those are, are avenues to a prosperous planet health. I mean, that’s another one.

So all of those things are our pathway to a more prosperous future and a sustainable future. And when you look at those goals, each of them have objectives underneath them, right? How are you going to get there?

What are the things we need to do as a, as a society to move us towards a more sustainable future? And it’s a great place to start for those that, that maybe are interested in the topic and, and haven’t really, uh, you know, just kind of hear about it and want to learn more. So I think it’s a really great place to start.

You can find them at s d g s.un.org slash goals. Uh, as a place you can find those.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I found those helpful in the sense of helping me broaden my perspective on sustainability. Cause I think you’re absolutely right.

I, I would posit that if you ask the average person on the street, what does sustainability mean to you? There’s going to be a lot of, um, I think environment sort of weighs more heavily, uh, for in the public conscience, uh, in that respect. But a hundred, we absolutely need to consider not just the environment, but then how does society sort of become, um, be better about operating within those natural systems and then our sort of economic systems supporting all of that.

Right. And I, yeah, so they’re, they’re all interconnected. Um, and so, yeah, the, the, the UN goals were really helpful in sort of broadening my perspective that way.

Sheldon Young
Well, Jason is funny that you mentioned that, you know, uh, what people on the street would say, cause I have recorded some people that have, uh, a little bit of people in the streets, a little bit of a segment I want to try to do here. And so I’m just going to play one of them for you. Uh, this, uh, a person, uh, that, uh, I met and, uh, I know is in the sustainability world, like we are, so anything like that.

So I kind of asked him, I said, you know, Hey, tell me when you hear sustainability, what does it mean to you? So I’m going to play that for you. And I want just to hear kind of what your reaction to kind of what other people are thinking about when they hear sustainability.

Uh, the ability for a, uh, system or product to be maintained over a long period of time with a little or minimal effect to the environment. So that was it. What did you think of that definition?

Jason Moreau
One? I enjoy that. It’s succinct, but two, I think it hits on sort of the two key things, right?

The environment, which is what we’ve been talking about, right? This, the space in which we all need to exist, but then it’s that, it’s that future state, right? It’s planning today to maybe hold back or do something different, be conservative so that you have resources in the future to continue to exist, right?

Like that’s the loop. So I actually really liked that definition.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s funny.

I asked a few people this and maybe we’ll play some more in another, another time, but the, you know, I heard various definitions that, you know, I just, it’s some people, it’s very simple. It’s like, it’s just like, you know, doing less harm or just try to do the right thing with, you know, to save the planet or whatever it was. Right.

And so their definitions are largely what I’ve heard from people I’ve talked to largely around the planet. And so, you know, trying not to pollute and recycle and to do the simple things, which is a great start. I think, you know, as we discussed, so I think there’s opportunities to expand that definition a little bit and, you know, understand there’s, there’s a lot of impact points that we can make for more sustainable future.

And so it’s interesting, you know, but we have to start somewhere and it’s at least people are, are kind of, kind of understanding. And I think as we do more of these episodes, I’ll continue to ask people questions. I think we’re going to get mixed answers when it comes to, to some of them, particularly as you start going down the road of more, I call it niche topics.

Yeah. And when we start getting to things like, you know, what’s PFOS and things like that, I think we’ll get different answers or some people I bet have never even heard of it. I almost guarantee it.

Jason Moreau
Uh, yeah. Well, but I, I, I do think it’s also, it’s, it’s key to think about it through those, those three pillars or lenses, right? The economic, the environmental and the social, because they’re so interconnected.

And again, to reference like our, our previous episode with Paul, where. In order to have the environmental impact that he wants, he needs to consider the economic sustainability and viability of his model at scale, right? There’s plenty of amazing ideas that work at pilot stage, but don’t scale.

And so they’re, they’re not able to be economically sustainable, which means they can’t have the societal and the environmental impact, right? There’s this ripple effect. So it, I think it really is really important to, to keep asking and thinking about it along those different dimensions.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. I think you’re a hundred percent. Right.

And I think, uh, as we move towards, uh, we start thinking about the other aspects, you know, people are just kind of starting their sustainability journey. You know, kind of what’s important. We talked about, you know, just starting, uh, just having some, some impact and understanding kind of where your levers are to, to, to address sustainability.

I think it’s setting real goals that are measurable. I think that’s another really important part. And I think, you know, there’s a couple of more resources that are out there.

Again, if you’re just starting, just set something, you know, you can measure that, you know, will make an impact, right? As you start to evolve, there are other resources out there. So for example, in our company and many others are in this SBTI, which is science-based target initiative.

Uh, that is, uh, they’re validated goals. They’re, they’re kind of, you know, they’re ones that you can kind of put up there and say, okay, these have the kind of the gold, the gold star next to them. I’ve been rubber stamped as being something that is, uh, relevant, uh, impactful, and also measurable.

Uh, you also have, uh, auditing companies out there that kind of do. Uh, and give sustainability ratings based on what they find is, uh, one that’s out there, Ecovartis is one of them. There’s others as well.

Uh, I just know those cause those are, those are things that I know that we’re involved in and have, uh, uh, implemented into our strategies. And so, uh, then you have just, again, just being simple, look at your impact and work and the work you do with your people and set those realistic goals and be transparent about it. I think it’s one of the most important things is transparency.

Uh, you know, as you start to think about, you know, your performance and how you’re doing, you’re not going to meet all your goals right out of the gate. It’s, it’s the goal. The purpose is to set challenging ones, ones that are achievable and there are milestones along the way, but you don’t, if you meet a hundred percent of them, maybe you didn’t stretch hard enough, right?

Jason Moreau
Yeah. Well, I think that’s important why you measure in the first place, right? So you can see, did I hit the target or not?

But even if you didn’t, there’s a motivating factor there, both in terms of what you accomplished, but there’s that sort of hunger to close the gap and to then hit the goal and figure out what do we need to do differently, how do we rethink this? Um, so I, I think that’s key. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Uh, so, so as we kind of wrap this up a little bit and kind of get to, uh, the end of the conversation, I get in, it’s a really about. Having some goals, identifying where you can have an impact, measuring them, setting those targets, uh, knowing the levers that you have to meet those targets, uh, and, and then basically. You’ll rinse, repeat, you know, as you start to iterate and start to move through your sustainability journey, you’re going to learn, you’re going to learn from that, you’re going to do some things that are great.

You’re going to have some great wins. Uh, you have to continue to say what’s next and have those big audacious ones out there, but have those milestone goals along the way. And you know, in, in 2025, sustainability means a lot of things.

So again, in recap, kind of go back, look at those, those, uh, uh, UN sustainable development goals, look at what other companies, your peer companies, the, the, the people you want to emulate, see what they’re doing. It’s okay to, to look at that and say, some of these are relevant for us. Some of them are not.

Uh, but put them, you know, put some of them on your, on your plan and say, uh, here’s how we get there. And I think it’s also important to, to say, to understand that sustainability does not have to be just a cost. Cause it’s not usually if you do it, right, right.

If you do sustainability, right. You won’t disconnect it from ROI and profitability because it is a return on investment. It often has a return on investment, unless it’s something that is mandated by the government or whatever, because you have to do it.

Okay. You can’t always. Uh, went on those ones in terms of profitability, but if you do sustainability, right.

And you think about it, sustainability is good business. And if you step in and say, okay, how do we move the needle towards a more sustainable future while also lifting our, our productivity and our profitability, those three things are symbiotic and you can have them. But if you forget about the sustainability part about it, you’re, you’re kind of leaving one of the legs off the stool.

And as you know, stewards of the environment and, and, you know, participants in our community and our society, put it into the equation. You can have all three. And if you find good partners, you’ll be able to, to achieve those goals and also help your bottom line of the process.

So I think at the end of the day, if you do those things, if you listen, if you collaborate with people, if you learn and you share at the end of the day, uh, and have a, you know, and have a genuine heart in, in this, it’s a win, win, win. Does never, it does not have to be a sacrifice. You know, sustainability does not equal sacrifice.

If there’s one big takeaway from this episode, it is sustainability is good business.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I think by and large, if you were to set and hit sustainability goals as a, as a knock on effect of that, you have made your business more resilient to a lot of external forces that could knock it out of orbit. And so you’re, you’re just sustainability practices are resiliency practices.

And, and that is absolutely good for business. The only one other comment I would add in terms of please wrapping it up is, um, if I’m putting out my marketer and behavioral sort of focus, I think it’s, if it’s, it’s really good to look at the 17 UN sustainability goals, it can be overwhelming. It’s good to open your mind, but I think when you actually get down to what do we want to do either individually or as an organization, then it’s time to focus because that’s exactly how you marshal the resources to see the change happening.

Right back to your West Virginia example, they didn’t say do these 10 things to get better. They said, do this one thing. And they probably messaged it over and over and over until people got the message.

And so I, I think focus, um, and the clarity of that will likely yield faster, better results than if you try to do six different things at once.

Sheldon Young
You know what the great comment is great comment. I think you’re a hundred percent right. And I think, you know, when you look at, you know, just prioritize them.

I mean, you can, you can have six things, just prioritize them and say, where do we want to focus now? Uh, and, and then stick to that one and get it, you know, make some progress and then you can add, you know, we’ve kind of talked to talk that one through, but I think it’s a, for sure. I think it makes sense to just kind of do it that way.

And, uh, uh, with, with step-by-step we’ll get to a more sustainable future. Okay. So let’s wrap up a little bit of the housekeeping stuff.

If you have feedback about the episode or other episodes or have ideas on guests or topics, feel free to send us an email. You can do that at nofootprints.podcast@alfalaval.com. It’s Alfa Laval, a L F a L a V a L.com.

And so, uh, that is the company that Jason and I both work for. Um, you know, we can learn more about us at alpha valve.com. So please do that and then see how we drive sustainability in our world.

Uh, uh, also, if you listen to this podcast, please like subscribe, share it with your friends, let them know about this show. And if you liked it, uh, please let us know as well. And so next time, uh, as we said, we will have another interview episode.

I’m very excited about that. And we’ve got a great pipeline. I’m excited about who we have, uh, lined up to, to speak to us, uh, on, uh, no footprints.

How about you, Jason?

Jason Moreau
Cooking up some good stuff in the kitchen. Yes. I’m excited as well.

Sheldon Young
I like the summary. I like that cooking up something good in the kitchen. That is a fantastic way to end this episode.

And so we thank you for joining us on no footprints and we’ll see you next time.

Jason Moreau
Bye everybody.