Interview with Ron Holmes

Transcript

[Sheldon Young]
Welcome to No Footprints, a podcast brought to you by Alfa Laval. I’m Sheldon Young.

[Jason Moreau]
And I am Jason Moreau.

[Sheldon Young]
We’re here to talk about impact and to share the efforts and people behind making sustainability real.

Jason, Jason. Okay. So from last episode, it’s gigawatt.

[Jason Moreau]
Yes.

[Sheldon Young]
Yes. Not, not do so. I believe I was correct, but, uh, we had the, we had the Back to the Future

[Jason Moreau]
Correct, which is just as famous a pronunciation at this point because of the movie, um, to where I feel like. It’s one of those things in the language of like, if the mispronunciation becomes more popular, like GIF or Jif, they’re both, they’re both adequate. Right.

And it’s funny because it’s the same thing. It’s the hard G or the soft G. Is it the G or the J and you know what?

If you want to be Doc Brown about it, it’s a gigawatt and I’m totally fine with it.

[Sheldon Young]
It’s a giga. It’s a giga. What? Yeah. But anyway, so just for those that weren’t here last episode, that is a clarification. Um, okay.

So there’s something else that’s very important to talk about today, Jason, before we roll into the interview, happy anniversary. It is. We’re at a year, man.

This is, uh, uh, we, our first episode was April 1st of last year. No joke with Paul, with Paul Shapiro, no joke intended. Right.

So, uh, it’s been a year we’ve become why, well, we’ve gotten older and I’m a wiser, um, uh, thoughts, regrets, uh, fire away.

[Jason Moreau]
Why did I agree to get on the bus in the first place? No, no regrets. Uh, it’s been a very, I would say fruitful year.

Um, the amount and diversity of, uh, conversations and topics that we’ve covered in just a year. I don’t think I would have guessed that it would have been that wide ranging. So that was surprising, but also, uh, really fun for me.

Um, you know, I’m a curious guy and to be able to talk to lots of interesting people and, um, get paid for it. It’s kind of a cool deal.

[Sheldon Young]
So you’re getting paid.

[Jason Moreau]
Oh, should I have not? Yeah, sorry. Sorry.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s right. That’s right.

[Jason Moreau]
You need to renegotiate your contract for the show, I guess.

[Sheldon Young]
With myself. Right. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I guess, um, I think about it. It’s like, you know, for me, it’s like, wait, why did I start sooner? I’m like, well, I know why I didn’t start sooner.

I didn’t have a partner like, like yourself to do this with. And it just wouldn’t have been the same as this. The show would not have been the same.

Would have been, I think, a lesser show. There’s no question. Uh, and I think, uh, you know, I’m, yeah, I think I share the same sentiments of like the diversity of people, the great stories that kind of existed that we didn’t really know about, frankly, and we’re able to, uh, I guess, bring to the surface a little bit though.

I mean, they were shared. I’m sure that people knew them in other circles and stuff like that. But I feel like we have a little unique delivery mechanism here.

We have a probably unique audience segmentation, I guess. Uh, and, uh, I guess the story here is, you know, how do you make sustainability real, uh, you know, I think, uh, hopefully it’s, it’s brought some insight to some people and, um, you know, it certainly enriched myself and the, um, you know, in the, I guess in the, in the spiritual and mental way, uh, in terms of, uh, being better at kind of what I do every day. So, uh, I’m for one, I’m excited about, uh, the year to come and hopefully we get to keep doing this and tell stories.

[Jason Moreau]
I hope so. And I got you an anniversary present.

[Sheldon Young]
What?

[Jason Moreau]
We have a companion website that is live.

[Sheldon Young]
Oh my gosh. What is it?

[Jason Moreau]
Nofootprintspodcast.com, baby.

[Sheldon Young]
That is pretty straightforward. I like it. So there you go.

You’re what will they find on this website?

[Jason Moreau]
Well, the version one is, uh, you know, it’s pretty slim. So work in progress as most websites are. However, um, they will find all of our published episodes.

Uh, they’ll be able to listen to the episodes there, but they will also see a full transcript. So if you’re a person who. You know, you’ve listened to some episodes, uh, but you know, didn’t want to, whatever reason got interrupted and you’re, or maybe you just prefer to scan and read.

Um, you can just kind of scan and read. And then as I go through and make the site better, I will link concepts in the transcripts, you know, that come up in multiple episodes. So that’s right.

Sort of almost just a cross-reference of all of the, to your point, really good topics, um, that keep on coming up and, and that sort of strengthen our approach to what we do, uh, in our day jobs. So, yeah, I have, I have a lot of good ideas and plans for improvement, but I think it was just more important to sort of get the version one out there.

[Sheldon Young]
I think that’s fantastic.

[Jason Moreau]
And make it live. So it is,

[Sheldon Young]
Thank you, Jason. What a kind gift. I love it. It’s a very exciting thing.

[Jason Moreau]
Um, so we’ll have to add it to the, uh, to the, to your bumper at the end of the show, right? They can email us and then they can visit the website. Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Go. We are digitally competent. Yeah.

I have to walk before we run, I guess.

[Jason Moreau]
Excellent.

[Sheldon Young]
Well, it’s very exciting stuff. Well, so great anniversary. Commenced.

Um, okay. So I guess stories, uh, quickly, my story, I kind of came up with this time around. Uh, you know, and basically an article I read, you know, investors are starting to ask about water more.

So you’re starting to see companies, uh, get kind of, uh, I wouldn’t say investor pressure, but they’re getting lots of questions for, for, from their institutional investors, things like that. I say, what is your water strategy? Tell us about your water usage in high stress areas.

What is your water per unit produced metric? And is it going down? That to me is a, is a, is a sure sign that I think the knowledge base of, I guess, say outside the sustainability realm, the people that work there every day, we’re starting to see it become a little more, I guess, mainstream from once investors start talking about it, the, you know, you’ll start to see a little more standardization.

You’ll start to see a little more, um, I guess, discussion around how are you addressing this? And how are you speaking to your investors about it? And so it was a really interesting article for me because water, um, you know, we’ve read the carbon discussion a long time to see it now kind of translate into the water world.

I think is really interesting. I think it’s important because, uh, you know, it is, you know, with water goes energy, right? Uh, the two are interlocked in a lot of ways and you start to see, uh, certain dependencies there.

And, and, uh, you know, honestly, without water, you are really, you know, with no pun intended up a Creek. Um, uh, and so having it be, I guess, a more centered discussion from a financial point of view, I think will definitely give it more credence and power in terms of a sustainability. Uh, you know, uh, chess piece for lack of a better term, uh, to, to, to the strategy that these companies need to start to deploy.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. And you, you have to think that if it’s coming from financial investment type of, uh, quarters that they’ve recognized that there’s a correlation between companies that have a strategy regarding their water usage and stress and companies that don’t write to where it, it, it almost looks like you aren’t as disciplined in terms of plans for the business, um, continuity planning, risk mitigation, all of those things that somebody who’s, you know, calculating the value of a business and, and determining the robustness of the strategy. Um, so it’s, it’s really fascinating that water has now sort of entered the conversation from that lens and where they’re, they’re making that, that assessment and that connection.

That’s, that’s really great. I honestly think.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, absolutely. Great, great, great insight there. Jason, the way you would put that, I think you’re right.

It’s, it’s becoming part of the conversation. It’s becoming the, uh, something that people will start to, to recognize as, as a real important metric to, to, to track and manage. And you’re right.

It is about if you aren’t managing your water risk, what other risks aren’t you managing?

[Jason Moreau]
Right. It’s, it’s just, if yeah, if you have no plan and no discipline around this, what other, right, it’s just a, you know, like, oh, you have a messy desk at work, you must be an unorganized person. Now that isn’t always true, but.

It’s true enough where, okay, we have to consider this and ask the question. Correct. Yeah.

But it, but it’s a pretty good indicator.

[Sheldon Young]
It’s an indicator. That’s right. It is.

It is. Okay. Awesome.

Well, Jason, what is your story for them?

[Jason Moreau]
Uh, my story, uh, per usual, I, I like the, the sort of the science and the, the more sort of tech and experimental ones. So really interesting. Um, there was some new research out of the university of Massachusetts Amherst.

Um, and it was specifically about sanitation and low moisture environments. So speaking about water, it’s really interesting, obviously water, very important in terms of cleaning and sanitizing a lot of food and beverage production, however, in facilities that process dry foods. So think spices, grains, chocolate, milk powders.

They really have to limit their water usage because residual moisture creates humidity, which essentially leads to more pathogens. So there’s this really sort of hard trade-off in terms of like, well, how do we clean and make everything sanitary, but not also use so much water. That we’re, we’re just causing more of a problem with pathogens.

Typically the way that they do it is they turn to an alcohol-based mixture. Which is great. However, the flammability of the alcohol pose adds additional safety risks, uh, for the workers and the facilities.

So the research, um, looked at, uh, other formulations of, um, uh, it’s a cyclo methicone combined with a vinegar based acetic acid. And essentially that was enough of a, uh, of an acid, I suppose, to be really effective against the pathogens. Uh, additional benefit.

It had a higher flash point than alcohol. So it took care of the safety issue, um, uh, versus alcohol in terms of cleaning, but then the other thing was the new formulation has only 3% water compared to 30% for traditional products. So it preserves the humidity necessary to not, um, create a good harboring or, or environment for pathogens down.

So like they, they checked all the boxes. So again, I just, I think it’s, I think science is amazing. Um, and I, and I, I love it when they find a solution where generally it’s like, Oh, we, we found the perfect center of the Venn diagram of the thing we were looking for, you know what I mean?

Like, so it’s just very satisfying to me.

[Sheldon Young]
When I read those, it’s very interesting. You got me thinking again, let’s see. Uh, I don’t know if you know about this.

We have actually have a product here. It’s, it’s called a Kathabar. Ah, the liquid desiccant, the liquid desiccant.

And so you, you, you started to little things started to ring back in my, my brain there about, you know, that’s a super like humidity control device.

[Jason Moreau]
Right. Correct. They can dial it in super specific.

Yes.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. You actually get me thinking about, you know, can I, could that be used there? Like, I wonder if like, you know, cause we certainly do it, use it for things like, you know, whether it’s a candy coating or even though there’s been a case where they put them in like a freezer environment, so it prevents frost, a freezer burn on things.

It’s really kind of interesting.

[Jason Moreau]
Outside of food. I know they’ve used it in like operating room environments where like humidity is super important. Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah.

So it’s really interesting. You should, you know, uh, stories meet life and answer. Like it’s certainly fun.

That fun, fun. We work in a world that we can actually, Oh yeah, I know those things. I know about that.

I don’t know about that. Well, fun story, a fun story. Well, no, this is a fun story.

A fun story about our guests, the guest that’s going to be joining us next. Uh, you know, we got connected again through a business relationship where we work with this organization. He’s from occasionally and, um, more than occasionally, but, uh, we, uh, just down there connecting with some people and, uh, Ron’s name came up and I’m the sustainability person for our division here.

And so, uh, we got connected and, and, uh, Really, really interesting role he has, uh, at Haskell, which is a global engineering firm. For those that don’t know, uh, really loved his story and his journey. So I hope that the audience will as well.

I thought it was super interesting. And what do you say? We go talk to talk to Ron.

[Jason Moreau]
Let’s listen.

[Sheldon Young]
All right. Welcome to no footprints podcast. Today’s guest has been an EHS his whole career.

His current role is vice president, sustainability at Haskell. And with 30 years of environmental experience, he leads Haskell’s efforts to reduce its footprint and drive sustainability across engineering and construction. He and Haskell partnered with clients, especially in the food, beverage, and CPG space to deliver innovative solutions like water, energy reduction, waste minimization, and sustainability assessments.

He’s passionate about making Haskell engineering industry leader. And it’s my absolute pleasure to welcome Ron Holmes to the No Footprints podcast.

[Ron Holmes]
Thanks, Sheldon.

It’s good to be here.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.

We met, I don’t know, maybe a year and a half ago, a year or two. I forgot how long it was. Uh, just, uh, our companies got together.

We’re talking about stuff and you and I connected and here we are now telling your story.

[Ron Holmes]
Sounds good. Actually, I think, um, your company’s meeting with our folks in Atlanta next week as well, when I told them that you and I were talking and doing this area, they were excited to hear that. So it was all good.

[Sheldon Young]
Absolutely. Good stuff. Well, we’ll make sure to make sure to give them an advanced copy of the podcast.

Good stuff. Well, actually let’s just start, tell us about your journey. I mentioned you’ve been doing it your whole career.

What does that consist of?

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. So I have a bachelor’s in environmental science, uh, from Youngstown state, and I have a master’s in environmental science, engineering, and business administration. Um, you know, went, went to school for those.

I got out of school and got a job with General Electric, which was fantastic. I was with them for about 11 years. Um, and it was all in the environment, health and safety space.

Right. Okay. Um, the greatest part about it is I got to be able to build and make light bulbs, jet engines, and locomotives.

[Sheldon Young]
And you can… All at the same time.

[Ron Holmes]
All the way. Not all at the same time, but pretty darn close. Right.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, that’s right.

[Ron Holmes]
Um, you know, so, you know, my environmental background there was pretty challenged with the amount of work going on and, you know, the operations that were there, which was great. Right. And I really enjoyed it.

And then I, I left and I went to a Diageo to run their health and safety. They called it a risk manager role. Right.

But it was EHS health and safety. So I did that for a couple of years. Uh, I also worked with Boston Beer and I ran health and safety and environment across all their breweries.

Uh, and then I was lucky enough to go back to Diageo because of an acquisition or a divestiture. They were able to bring me back. Um, and that’s where I really started, you know, that’s where I stepped into a leadership role at Diageo, again, running, you know, environment, health and safety.

But shortly after that, they asked me to start up the packaging team for North America.

[Sheldon Young]
Okay.

[Ron Holmes]
Right. So you got an environment, health and safety guy trying to figure out on how to start a packaging team. Right.

But their, their comment was, well, Ron, you deal with it every day in quality. Who’s the right person to go do that. Right.

And that was probably around 2015 when everything around sustainability ESG goals and everything were coming out. So, um, I fell right into it, which was fantastic. And I was one of the ones that led sustainability on the packaging side for all North America.

And I did help Diageo craft some of their 20, 30, um, uh, goals and achievements that they want to achieve. Sorry. So very much a big part of that.

I was there for about eight years. Uh, and then I stepped in to run, um, sustainability for Diageo’s global tequila business. Okay.

Right. So different aspects of roles. I mean, and that role was different, right?

Cause it wasn’t operations. It was on the marketing side. So I was able to, you know, instead of doing the work, I was the one helping tell the story on the great work that Diageo was doing.

Right. Which was pretty interesting, pretty neat. And I enjoyed it a lot.

And then like everything else, right. Somebody came to me with an offer. I couldn’t refuse.

Um, and I left Diageo and I went to our glass, uh, which is a glass container manufacturer. And I was their, uh, VP of sales marketing and sustainability. So they were only a business about three years.

Right. So good opportunity to build the business and move it forward. Right.

So I wanted to do that. Um, but you know, I was traveling to Georgia every week, uh, from my, from my home, you’re in Florida or no Florida. So a four hour drive, right.

That’s a lot to go do every week. Um, and then I, you know, just realized I was taking way too much time away from the family and that sort of stuff and look for other opportunities. And the Haskell door opened up and I’ve been at Haskell since September of 24 running corporate sustainability.

[Sheldon Young]
Wow. You’ve had a very interesting path, um, in those roles. Uh, tell me, what are some of the key things you learned about sustainability as you went through that journey?

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. I mean, some of the things around it, right. It’s the nice part about it is, is everybody has the same challenges, right.

And everybody wants to do the right thing, you know, and that’s what sustainability is about. Right. It’s about doing the right thing.

Right. So, um, you know, some people might not be big on sustainability or they might not be big on climate change, but everybody wants to do the right thing. Right.

And the way that I sort of been defining sustainability, right. Is, is not around savoring every drop of water and, you know, saving every tree out there. Right.

But it’s, but it’s minimizing my impact on resources so that future generations can enjoy them like I have. Right. So that’s sort of the message, you know, and, and people gravitate to that.

It resonates with a lot of people, right. Which works out really well. And, you know, but again, everybody wants to do the right thing.

You got to understand, you know, what, what triggers them and then use that to your benefit. But in the, but in the end, in the outcome, it’s all doing the right thing. Whether if it’s, you know, minimizing resources, being more energy efficient.

I mean, it’s all about doing the right thing.

[Jason Moreau]
I was kind of curious, the, um, the background in like environmental health and safety. Um, it, it seems like a lot of Haskell sustainability revolves around people, whether that’s training, whether that’s safety and environment, like, so, um, and, and I don’t think we talk about like we people come up a decent amount on the podcast, but it’s normally like a process thing. So just given your background, I just was curious, like how you see people like really being looped into your work and sustainability and sort of like overseeing that, um, and kind of bringing everybody along.

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it’s been great.

Right. I mean, let’s be honest, right. When you’re in the EHS world, right.

It’s changed, especially when I started out in the mid nineties. Right. So when you’re going to change something, you have to sell something, right.

I mean, you have to sell it to your internal stakeholders and really that’s what sustainability is. Um, but at the, at the Haskell group, you know, the Haskell company, um, they do a great job with designing sustainably, you know, building sustainably for clients, but they weren’t doing much for themselves, like focusing on the business. Right.

So hence the reason why they’ve started corporate sustainability, you know, they invited me in to come run that. Um, and it is amazing from the first, you know, couple of talks that I did meetings that I attended, the amount of people that have either come up to me or emailed me afterwards that are so interested and so happy that we’re doing it now, you know, because the way that I like to say, you know, with the role that I have there, there’s now a sustainability voice at the table, right. Somebody sitting at the table to help direct some of the strategy, some of the decision-making, you know, when we, when you’re, um, you know, a junior engineer, right.

I mean, you, you want to do the right stuff. You, you, you’re passionate about it, but you’re not the one sitting at the table making those decisions, you know, but again, my door is open. They can call me, email me, do whatever.

Right. And, um, you know, and we try to incorporate a lot of those things, um, whether it’s the corporate strategy or whether it’s, you know, we have teams built in where we have a, um, a sustainability council, which is a cross-functional team, I think there’s about 50 people across the business from all different disciplines and walks of life, right. It’s they all have a day job, but they’re passionate about sustainability.

So they’re able to join that and speak up. Uh, but, but once again, the, the amount of people that are excited that we’re doing this and they’re happy and they, they, they feel their voices being heard, um, has been, has been tremendous, right. I mean, that’s what drives me a lot is knowing that I have the support of the folks behind me.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, that’s fantastic. Yeah. So when you look at, you step in this role, it didn’t really have a big sustainability, uh, program for lack of a better term, right.

What did you feel needed to happen? And kind of what were the top objectives that you set for Haskell when you stepped into the role?

[Ron Holmes]
Well, it really all started with understanding the culture at Haskell.

[Sheldon Young]
Okay.

[Ron Holmes]
Right. Because, you know, that’s a big, you know, that’s a big deal, right? If there, if the culture is not there, right, then it’s going to be hard to get anything done.

Right. So it was, you know, meeting the team, understanding the business objectives. You know, I visited a bunch of offices.

I sit in, I was inviting, was inviting myself to a lot of meetings, right. Just to understand it, right. Just to get the feel of the culture of what it was for.

Right. And, you know, that went really well. Um, and then it was really evaluating the current landscape, right.

Because Haskell had, had, you know, still today, we have a lot of folks that have daytime jobs, right. They’re designers, engineers, you know, architects, whatever passionate about sustainability, you know, and they were doing some things, but then again, they have a full-time day job where we have to meet customer, you know, client commitments. Right.

So understanding where we were at today and what they were doing was the one thing. And then, you know, just knowing, you know, what needs to happen around sustainability. Or I was able to, you know, basically do a gap analysis.

So looking at the culture, understanding the landscapes, finding out what was missing. Right. And then from there, that’s what really drove me to, you know, to develop the strategy for Haskell.

Right. So that’s what came after it. And then after strategy was developed, pitch it to senior leadership, they’re all, you know, on board and, you know, basically marching orders, okay, great.

Go do it, which is terrific. You know, but after that, a lot, a lot of communication and education has to happen, which is still happening, right. Letting people understand what sustainability is, what it means to Haskell.

You know, so if you’re an engineer, what does it mean to you? Right. If you’re a, one of our assistant project managers on the field, you know, at a field site, what does it mean to you?

Like, how do you contribute? Right. So that’s what we’ve been doing a lot of now is the strategies in place.

We’re educating and communicating and rolling out the programs in order to move, in order to move the needle. Right. Because you can’t do it all at one time.

So, you know, identify the gaps, prioritize the actions, get people on your side and go forward with it. Right.

[Jason Moreau]
Very cool. I was kind of curious, given all of the different areas that you’ve played in, like Diageo is more consumer, Haskell is more B2B, how do you, are there any differences in sort of like market pull for wanting companies to show up in a sustainable way that you’ve noticed or different trends based on like the industries that you were in? I’m just more curious.

[Ron Holmes]
You know, from the Haskell side, I mean, it’s been great, right. Because I was an owner, right. Cause I was on the owner side, right.

When I was with Diageo, Haskell was, was a partner of Diageo, still is a partner of Diageo, right. So I’m able to provide that owner side perspective to the teams, right. And again, it might not be on sustainability, but, you know, it might be on a build that we’re doing, a huge project that we’re doing.

So I’m able to explain, it’s like, guys, when a client, an owner asks this, here’s what they want, right. So again, you know, so folks that, you know, like the Haskell team, a lot of them weren’t in, weren’t in manufacturing, right. But they’re engineers, right.

So they, they, they know what they have to do. The clients know what they have to do, right. So we have to meld that, you know, and mesh that together so that we’re all aligned in what we have to do.

And the nice part is, is I think I’m able to offer again, you know, that client, that owner perspective to help, you know, you know, work our way through the weeds to get to the right outcome, to give the client really what they want. And the nice part is, is when, you know, they do invite me to meetings and I tell them that I used to sit in their chair, right. It does bring some credibility as well.

It’s like, okay, this guy’s been in my shoes. He’s been there. He’s heard it.

He’s done it. So it does offer some credibility as well. And, you know, we, or I try to promote that as much as I can really.

[Jason Moreau]
That’s great. As a marketer, I deputize you as an, as an official marketer. If you’re, if you’re bringing voice of the customer in like that, then yeah, for sure.

That’s awesome.

[Sheldon Young]
You’ll get a special pin in the mail from Jason. So going back a little bit to when you were, you’re trying to roll this program out, you’re trying to engage people. I’m sure you had things that worked, things that didn’t work.

Can you talk a little bit about some of the, both of those, I guess, what worked really well at one of the gate for you and what was maybe a little bit more of a challenge you anticipated?

[Ron Holmes]
Uh, really what was true, you know, some of the challenging discipline I’ll start there first, right. Uh, you know, I like to say it was sort of, um, herding the cats, right. Controlling the chaos sort of thing.

Cause, um, because there wasn’t a defined strategy, right. You know, people, I don’t want to say in a negative way that they were all over the board. We were doing a lot of different things.

Right. So it’s very difficult to get to the successful outcome when you’re doing a lot of different things. Right.

So, you know, some of the challenge was working with those folks, understanding what they, you know, what they were trying to do, what they wanted to do, um, but then trying to let them understand, like, you know, great idea, love it, but we have to prioritize it. So your idea might not be number one. It might be number five, but what you’re doing is what we have to go do.

It’s just not where we need to be right now. So that was some of the challenge.

[Sheldon Young]
Can you talk about, about your priorities and process? How did you, how did you set up priorities?

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. So, I mean, you know, so after we developed the strategy, right. And, you know, multi bullet point, what we want to go after.

Um, we just started from the top of the strategy and worked our way down. Right. I mean, it was as simple as we didn’t have a vision or a mission around sustainability.

Right. So if you’re going to drive change and make a big impact, what is the vision? And really without seeing that future vision, you don’t know where you’re driving the bus, right.

You could be all over the place. Right. So it was around things like that.

It was like, um, you know, set the vision and the mission and the purpose. Right. So we’re trying to incorporate all those, um, develop the communication tools that we need, um, in order to go forward and keep those things moving.

And it really, it was a lot of just meeting with the teams, hearing them, understanding what they needed in order to, you know, to, to prioritize those actions, right. Cause let’s be, let’s be honest. If it was, um, a low impact, but easy to do it.

And I knew that I was going to get a bunch more folks to help out by doing those things. We accomplished those things. Right.

Right. Right. Take it easy.

The easiest ones to do. Right. So those are what you do.

Um, and so we were going after things like that. Right. Cause like I said, Haskell was doing a bunch of great stuff.

I’m just, I was just, I put it all together in an orderly fashion, right. Added some nuances that I knew were missing that we had to incorporate. Um, and you know, and went forward with it, but that’s how we were prioritizing them and then what I’ve done with some of them is because there’s me and I do have a team now, so the, um, you know, Haskell has really embraced this.

I mean, I came in September. I hired somebody in October. I hired another gentleman in January or April of last year.

I hired another gentleman, uh, this January. Right. So the nice part is, is I’m able to divvy up some of that work.

Right. So knowing where, you know, where it fits on the priority, I can now make, you know, my priorities are one things, you know, my, you know, director of sustainability who manages all of our carbon and all of our reporting is another right job site is another one. So we’ve been able to prioritize, but in multiple areas so that we’re getting the biggest bang for our buck and all of our implementation strategies.

[Jason Moreau]
That’s pretty phenomenal. Um, I had a question about the, um, like when you look at all the different areas that Haskell plays in like industries, um, how much like learning or cross-pollination is there from like different industries around sustainability? Right.

So like learnings in terms of materials or waste management or project resourcing, um, cause I was just struck by how many different, like you’re, you’re building small nuclear sites and then you’re building food processing and then you’re right. So like the nuclear food processing, nuclear food processing.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah.

[Jason Moreau]
So I, so I just, I, I have to imagine like, how do you, um, operationalize for lack of a better word, learnings from each of those and making sure that like from a sustainability standpoint, those learnings cross pollinate.

[Ron Holmes]
Well, the, the nice part about it, Jason, is that we’re the way that we’re set up, right, is that we’re not so rigid that we follow, like, you know, you are going to work in this market and you will work in this market.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Ron Holmes]
So, um, it’s really dependent on what the project is. It depends on what the workload is. So, you know, so, so, you know, you might be an architect or, you know, architect designer in one market, but you can also work, you know, cross markets.

Right. Got it. You know, and then we also purposely do that for cross-training, right, because it is different.

And then, you know, if you take all those folks, we have somewhere, I mean, I, you know, I think in the neighborhood of about 700 designers, engineers, and architects we have in the group, but you know, of those, of that number, we have over 125 folks that are accredited in, in, in LEED, right, right. So, you know, so they’re able to use their experiences from one project to the next. Right.

We’re able to do that as we go forward. Um, you know, and the things we’re doing now to help out industries is that we’re developing, and really we just started it this past couple of months. Um, and we call it the Haskell Sustainability Design Guide Booklet.

[Sheldon Young]
Right.

[Ron Holmes]
So it’s something that we’re going to be rolling out here, right, soon. And we’re, you know, working with our marketing teams to make it, you know, to Haskellize it and make it fantastic. Like they do everything, right.

So people, um, you know, will think it’s professional, which it is. Um, but you know, it’ll be something that we will use with clients, you know, that our designers, our architects, engineers will use and sit down with And it’ll go from everything from, you know, the, the site all the way down to the mechanical systems, to the materials and, you know, be like, okay, Mr. and Mrs. Client, we could design this and here’s the baseline. If you want to be a little more sustainable, we have these options.

Here’s the impact and here’s the cost. But if you want this a truly sustainable, you know, lead, you know, uh, gold, lead, silver building with the, with the best, you know, that you could get. Here are those options and here are those costs.

Right.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah.

[Ron Holmes]
So today we do that sort of ad hoc based on what the client wants. So we’re just trying to formalize it. That way we could take that document and it would be a learning document where you could share it across markets, share it across, you know, designers and architects so that they can use it and see the best practices that we’ve done in certain industries using certain materials.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s a really interesting. Uh, tactic, I guess, or, or, yeah, I guess a tool, I guess, or whatever we’re looking for. In that process.

Are you also, I guess, walking through the total long-term return on investment for doing that? So for example, if I, yeah, it’s going to cost me more to, to be more sustainable, I’m also expecting to benefit more from that long run, whether it’s carbon impact and energy use and water use, all that stuff.

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah, exactly. I mean, that, that, that is the intent and purpose of it, right. Is to show what the ROI is for spending the more money, right?

So as an example, you know, we can show them difference, you know, different insulations, right? Here’s the baseline. Here’s what you’re going to get.

But if you choose this one, you know, an upgraded insulation, this will impact your operational costs through, you know, decreasing energy and costs associated with your HVAC system, right? So here’s what the material costs increases, but over the 20, 30-year lifespan of that building of that system, here’s what you would save, right? So that’s how we’re trying to justify that to show that.

And really, you know, what, what, what we plan on doing with is, is, you know, working with specific markets, right? Because certain markets, you know, find this more advantageous than others at this point, let’s be honest, right? We get it.

But once we get enough of these developed and done, right, it’ll be easier to share it across every market that we’re in with every client, because it’ll sort of be the design cookbook, right? With all the ideas already there with the, you know, the calculations already created, you have to change some numbers here and there, right? Depending on sizes and things like that.

But a lot of it will already be there. So now we’re going to start out small. We’re going to start out slow.

We’re going to go after, you know, certain, you know, certain clients, you know, that, that have huge sustainability goals, carbon reduction goals, operational efficiency goals to work with them. And then as this grows, hopefully it’ll grow across the business and our client base.

[Jason Moreau]
Wow. That’s super ambitious. I I’m so curious, cause you said you just rolled it out or about to roll it out.

So no, no early learnings yet, but, um, I want to follow up with you in like six months, 12 months and really like, see how that went.

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. I hope I have good news for you, Jason.

[Sheldon Young]
You will, I am confident you’re going to have good news. So you kind of answered one of the questions I had here. You know, how, how are you making sustainability a competitive advantage for Haskell?

This sounds like the way, right? Um, so if I’m looking right now, outside in at Haskell, what is the sustainability story I get? And how is that going to change or?

[Ron Holmes]
Well, yes, it’s going to change, right? So, so if you look from the outside in, right, you’re going to see that, you know, I mean, in my opinion, right. You know, we have the best designers, architects, engineers out there, right.

And we’ve been designing, um, for industry, we’ve been designing sustainable, um, solutions, providing sustainable solutions and designing as such for clients early on. I mean, we were a very early adopter of lead when it first came out, you know, oh, you know, well over a hundred and some folks accredited in that thing. Right.

So that’s not going to change, right. That’s happening. You know, the example that I gave around the booklet, we’re just finding new ways to reinvest our talents and provide the information to clients, right, in order to do that.

So that’s not going to change. Right. But what is changing with Haskell is the focus internally, you know, that’s the focus we’re, we’re, we’re changing, right.

Is, you know, we have 20 some offices around the globe, right. We have, you know, countless number of projects going on around, you know, well over a hundred plus projects going on around the globe. So we’re really focusing on our footprint because, you know, clients are doing all the right stuff within their four walls.

We want to make sure we’re doing all the right stuff within our four walls. Right. So those are the things we’re focusing on.

I mean, what we deliver for clients and design, that’s not going to change. Obviously we will continue to embrace, you know, the best technology that’s out there to offer to the clients. But really what’s changing is internally to Haskell.

So who we are, what we stand for, what we want to go after, how are we going to reduce, how are we going to minimize our environmental impact with what we control today? Whether it’s our offices, our fleets, our job sites, because that’s the other thing that’s changing is we’re now going to put more emphasis this year on all of our job site sustainability practices.

[Sheldon Young]
Oh, that’s fantastic.

[Ron Holmes]
So we’re going to be looking across our waste practices, our, our water practices, materials will obviously be a big one to make sure we’re using materials like that, job site wellness, as well as water. I think I might’ve mentioned water, but, and carbon is the other one. Right.

So we’re really going to be focusing on those. So really internally, everything that we control, that we manage as a stuff that we are, we are looking to improve and upgrade and things like that. But what we do for clients is never going to change.

They’re always number one, and we’re going to give them exactly what we want. And we’re going to show them what’s available for them and let them make the right decision for themselves.

[Sheldon Young]
Excellent. Love it. Love it.

So. Whether you’re speaking to your clients or speaking to someone that’s starting, just starting their sustainability journey, do you have any top pieces of advice you’d give them as to how to get rolling on something like this and have the most impact and have some early wins?

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. So if you’re talking about sort of, you know, I mean, you know, um, you know, new employees or somebody, you know, that wants to talk to us that, you know, that just got involved in sustainability. Right.

I mean, I guess the three pieces or a couple of pieces of information I would offer is, you know, learn and understand your business. Right. And, and, you know, if you’re talking, obviously we’re talking about sustainability, but you know, you got to learn your business in order to apply how sustainability is going to work for your business, right?

Because really sustainability is a growth tool for business, right? Because again, if you can be more sustainable, which means you improve your operational efficiency, you save money on the bottom line, which thus allows you to reinvest and grow your business, right? So learn the business.

How can you apply it and really make sure the narrative is around using sustainability to be a growth tool. That that’s one of them. Right.

Um, the, the other one, which might be the most important is gaining leadership support.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Yeah. So say more.

Yeah. I’m definitely seeing more about that.

[Ron Holmes]
You know, so if you don’t have leadership support, I mean, you’re going to be moving a boulder uphill and it’s not going to work. Let’s be honest. Right.

I mean, if you have their support and the employees know from the top down, right, that it’s supported from the top of the organization down, right. Then they’re, then they know that they have the support. They know they have the freedom to speak.

They know they can come up with ideas, right. And present those ideas to see which one worked for the company. Right.

Cause again, without leadership support, um, you know, it’s not going to work. And, you know, I can tell you coming into Haskell, um, I mean, it was, it was amazing, right. You know, Jim O’Leary, our CEO and, and, uh, uh, JP signs, our COO, who’s now been promoted to president, you know, those, both of those gentlemen were behind me, you know, a hundred percent.

I mean, I remember, I think I was here for about three weeks, maybe a month. And I was talking to Jim, our CEO in our corporate office. And, you know, we had a great discussion, you know, what’s my plan?

What are we going to do? So I went through all that. And at the end of it, he goes, Ron, I am fully behind you.

If anybody gives you a problem, I need you to come see me. We need to correct it.

[Sheldon Young]
Well, that is support. Yeah.

[Ron Holmes]
When you have support like that from your CEO, I mean, you know, so, so things have, you know, again, it’s not like everybody was just like, Oh yes, go do this. Right. You know, you still have to justify it.

You still have to make people understand. Right. But I knew I had the support from leadership down.

[Sheldon Young]
Let me, I mean, that’s just a quick question on that leadership support. Let’s say you, you maybe don’t have it as strongly as you do right now. Anything you could do, any advice you’d give for someone that maybe to push someone towards the direction of support?

[Ron Holmes]
Well, again, Sean, Sean, I think it goes back to, you have to sell it to the business of how it’s a tool for the business to use, to grow the business. Right. Cause I mean, you know, in the world that we live in today, I mean, we work with a lot of, you know, multinational companies, right.

That are obviously, you know, they’re all over, you know, a lot of them are working in Europe, Europe is very aggressive in sustainability with their, you know, with their laws and regulations and it’s been around for a long time. Right. So you have to be able to show those clients that you’re doing the right stuff.

You’re there to support them and you’re there really to help them meet their goals. Right. And when you can do that and you can show your leadership that and give them those examples, you know, again, it’s not going to come, you know, it’s not, it might not all come at once, but you will start to win them over.

So they will understand how sustainability can support and then their, then their support comes afterwards.

[Sheldon Young]
Love it.

[Ron Holmes]
Right. And then I guess the last piece of information, you know, or the last piece of advice I would be is, you know, utilize the team. I mean, there’s a lot to do in sustainability.

And, you know, my team can’t do everything and we know that, but, you know, so we rely on our pre-con folks, our finance folks, our risk management, our accounting, we rely on everybody. And they’re all very talented and, you know, at what they do. And they have to provide a lot of data to us and information in order to do the things that we need to do.

Right. So it’s rely on those folks, you know, make sure that you’re bringing them along on the journey. And, you know, use the team and realize you can’t get it all done on your own.

And I guess the last one and I’ll add a fourth is do not be afraid to ask for help.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah.

[Ron Holmes]
Ask for help.

[Sheldon Young]
Absolutely. Great advice. Those are some, some great starter points there.

And I think anyone that’s having a struggle in the journey, which we all do, where everyone at some point finds himself on a struggle bus, and I think those are some great tickets to get off of it for sure. Yeah. So just kind of to wrap up, Ron, any thing you’d like to make the users aware of, the listeners aware of in terms of Haskell being at some shows or how can they learn more about your journey?

Anything like that you’d like to share?

[Ron Holmes]
Yeah. So we, we just updated our external haskell.com webpage. Okay, great.

Which is great now. We, we, so if anybody goes to haskell.com, you look for the little sustainability green leaf in the upper right-hand corner. So you don’t have to scroll for it like you did in the past.

And it’s, and we, we edited and made that page in order to tell our story, right? We talk about our commitments. We talk about our pillars.

We talk about our team, our projects. So all of that is on there. And we are going to be using that more and more as we go forward to update folks.

We also started last year and obviously we’re working on it again this year, more of our sustainability, social media calendars. You know, so we want to make sure that we’re posting about the good things that we’re doing, whether it’s for clients or for Haskell, right? So obviously, you know, Haskell dot, you know, Haskell on, on LinkedIn, you know, follow us, you can follow me.

I post a lot on there as well. But there’s a lot of stuff coming up. We’re, we’re, we go to, you know, a bunch of different shows and things like that.

We don’t always speak at them, but we, you know, we do attend them and things like that just to understand, you know, what it is. So, you know, we’ll be at GreenBuild in the fall. We’re going to, you know, decarbonize, you know, construction in, I think it’s in Denver in June and things like that, you know, so there’s a number of shows that we go to and really just because we we’ve just finally getting started in sustainability now about a year and a half with the true, with the strategy and the agenda, we’ll look in more of telling our story at some of those conferences and things like that. But right now we’ve been really focusing on, you know, establishing our baseline, you know, creating our foundation in order to drive where, where we need to go.

But those are the things that, you know, people can look forward to. And like I said, Haskell.com sustainability has a lot of information on it.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s exciting stuff. I, I am for sure. I do, I do follow you already.

I’m pretty sure. But if, for those that aren’t always going to be some great information, I’m looking forward to having, having your journey continue and being a part of it.

[Ron Holmes]
Great. Thank you very much guys. That was great.

I appreciate that. Appreciate the time. I always love talking about the great, the great work we’re doing.

So thanks.

[Sheldon Young]
We love hearing about it. So thank you so much. Thanks.

Okay. We are back, Jason, though. We never left anywhere at all.

Right. Ah, so what did you, what did you think of that lovely interview with Mr. Ron Holmes?

[Jason Moreau]
I really enjoyed it. Um, if I had to boil it down to one word, I, I felt like the whole conversation, like his approach to sustainability is just practical, like really grounded. Um, there was just a lot of real, like his approach, his mindset.

Um, just how he sort of like tackles a problem. I just, I just really appreciated sort of the practical nature with which he sort of goes about the work.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. That’s a really great insight. I think, uh, uh, for sure.

It was really, even in the definition, it’s like doing the right thing. Right. Uh, lowering resources.

So, so future generations can enjoy what we have. Yeah. That’s a practical, it’s a pretty straightforward way of doing it.

And sustainability is something you can really over complicate very quickly if you want to. If it’s, if you start letting, you know, not seeing the forest for the trees, you can start going down many, many rabbit holes. You can start measuring the wrong things.

I think we’ve heard this from other guests as well. Right. Really focus in on what you can control.

Uh, you know, I really enjoyed his approach, um, to making, you know, the things that are important to him, let’s, let’s make sustainability a voice at the table.

[Jason Moreau]
Yes. Right. Right.

Exactly.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s how you start. That’s how you start to make change is you first, you create a voice. And how do you do that?

You know, he was put, luckily put in a position. Where he was able to, to, uh, have that influence and say, look, where is it most important for us to, to make sustainability a part of the conversation? Uh, and, and, you know, you know, we all, most companies, most organizations, they have a sustainability, they have tendencies in sustainability.

Nobody wants to do bad. Right. So you have clay you’re working with.

It may be clay. That’s really, really. Uh, unformed, or it may be a, you know, like a little ashtray in the clay class, or it could be a fully formed statue, right?

Depends on where you are. And he, his superpower seems to be recognizing where they are and saying, yo, what do we need most importantly right now? Like what is kind of the most practical thing we could bring to the table?

I love the concept of the playbook. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, the Haskell sustainability design guide. I think he called it was the, was the name I’d written down.

Uh, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Moreau]
Well, it just, it again, sort of sounded like a very practical, no nonsense way to communicate the value and the opportunity. So again, it feels like, Oh yeah, that’s so straightforward. That’s so simple.

Obviously the like all of that knowledge and expertise that’s going to go into that hard one. Right. Like there’s a lot of people working on that.

But like some, it takes a lot of time to make something simple from a communication standpoint. Uh, I know that unfortunately, it’s a lot of scars and bruises from a marketing standpoint, but like. It takes a lot of time and effort to make things simple.

And so, but the effort is worth it. And to basically sell the change to, to a potential client, uh, and to get that buy-in and for them to sort of see, well, here’s what you can do here. Here’s where you can do here.

Here’s where that impact shows up. Uh, super smart.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, absolutely. I liked it. It basically just passes what I call the grunt test.

You can kind of just look at it and say, yeah, I get that. Right. And it just kinda, you know, to me, when you’re particularly, when you’re on a, I’d say earlier on in a journey, um, or at least earlier on in trying to do some of the things that he was doing, um, it really was, uh, you know, just to me, a very smart way of, Hey, I want to make this really practical, some things that are easy to do that are, you just have to look at it and say, oh yeah, here’s the impact, here’s the cost go. Right.

And to me, that’s, that’s a winning, a winning approach. Uh, as far as, as far as I’ve been able to tell, uh, in my, in my journey, for sure.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. Uh, I would say going back to what we were saying before about voice at the table, though, I didn’t, I didn’t want to pass, uh, I just wanted to remark that like, I think it’s easy to install somebody for sustainability and then to just say, well, check the box. I did that now we have sustainability.

I think he said the anecdote of, you know, you know, his boss saying like, you tell me if anybody’s getting in your way and if you can’t handle it on like, so it’s a serious commitment. And so it’s not just a seat at the table, but like he has the juice behind him to get stuff done. And, and I really, I admire that.

And I appreciate that about the organization, quite honestly.

[Sheldon Young]
Absolutely. I, that’s again, another, another great observation there, Jason. I think it’s without that, I think you’re right.

You’re walking into kind of where we’re going to the uphill battle. And, um, and again, that’s something that the battle’s not the right word. It’s just, it’s a, you’re walking into a challenge that’s going to be hard to overcome because you don’t have the, the wind to your sails.

Um, and you know, not everyone has that kind of support. And so, uh, but again, like I think we’ve heard from many different, different guests, it’s really around, you know, finding those little things you can actually go and influence and pushing toward it, but again, having that leadership buy-in, uh, is certainly an important part of, I guess, uh, uh, a larger organizational journey for sure.

[Jason Moreau]
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. But then he did get into a little bit of the prioritization and understanding, you know, what they decide to do and how and when.

Um, and, and again, just super practical. Um, part of the prioritization was gap analysis, just understanding like how far away are we from this goal? Is this something we should do now?

Or is this something like, okay, this is number five on the list. There’s some other easier wins. We’re closer to, again, no nonsense.

I just, uh, honestly, like listening to him talk, I think like there’s people here, like, man, I’d love to be on a team with that guy. You know what I mean? Where it’s just like, I’m sure sitting in meetings and just like being on that team, it’s like, we’re getting stuff done and there’s, there’s a logic and an order to it, and if anything, you know, Can reverse the trend, right?

So if you say you didn’t have that juice of your leadership, right. And you were, you know, going against the wind or swimming against the current, pick your metaphor. The thing that can help really turn that and get energy on your side is just base competence.

People see that you are moving the ball down the field and you’re doing it in a really effective, efficient manner. People want to join that team. And so there’s an energy, I think that you almost self-create by showing up that way.

And I honestly, I felt that energy talking to him where I was just like, man, I would be on this guy’s team. And, and so I just, I think, I think that goes a long way to being successful when, when you’re talking about sustainability initiatives.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, um, you know, that was, we talked about a couple of the points and we asked him kind of his advice. It was, you know, learning to understand your business, right.

Gain leadership, support, and then like utilize the team, like realize you can’t get that alone. So he seems like a person he’s not afraid to ask for help, not afraid to get people involved. And again, that’s energy you can gravitate to, you know, if, if people have a great people have a plan and it’s simple, which he’s done with the playbooks and things like that, keep it simple.

They can see the vision. They can see the end, the end line. Um, people want to be part of that.

And when you ask for help, they’re going to help. And so it’s definitely, you see the secret sauce for success there. Uh, and, uh, you know, uh, hopefully others can learn from that example.

Yeah. I, I see what made that work for him. How do I simplify my story?

How do I simplify my approach? How do I bring people on board to get these things done and get that buy-in? Right.

And so again, when it comes to the whole purpose of what we’re talking about, making sustainability real, there you go, prime example.

[Jason Moreau]
Yep. I think one of his other little secret hacks is that he himself had been on the other side of the table, right? So he was once in a role with companies that would have worked with a company like Haskell.

And so he knows what that customer wants needs is willing to hear in those conversations. He probably knows how much he can position, move the needle. And it just, it really becomes a, I think a really nice case study or story in almost marketing and communications, right?

Like if you know where your customer’s at and you know where they want to go, well, how am I going to be the bridge to take them on that journey from the before and after, and because he himself lived it, I think he has that real world experience that he can sort of convince anybody who’s skeptical on the team now to go, look, I’ve been on that side. Don’t like, if we, if we do it in this book and wait, right. Like they’ll listen, right.

But we have to, we have to frame it this way and we have to, right. So, um, yeah, no, I mean, again, super practical, just, uh, really impressive, um, in terms of what they’re doing over there.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Great stuff. Great stuff.

And thank you, Ron, again, for, for joining us on the podcast. Uh, yeah. So if you like this podcast, which I’m sure you did, who wouldn’t, right.

Please follow, like, subscribe and share it with your network. Uh, this stuff really matters to the success of the show. Uh, don’t forget.

We now have a website, footprintspodcast.com. Did I get it right?

[Jason Moreau]
That’s it.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s it. That’s that easy. Yeah.

If you have ideas for topics or guests, you can probably go to the website and maybe send an email or you can send it directly to nofootprints.podcast@alfalaval.com. Alfa Laval, A L F A L A V A L. And with that Jason, I think we reached the end of our story.

[Jason Moreau]
We have, it was a good one.

[Sheldon Young]
It was a good one. And thank you for joining us. Goodbye.

[Jason Moreau]
Bye.

[Sheldon Young]
Our guests come from many industries and companies, as we’re talking about how the world makes sustainability real. Our company Alfa Laval is a global supplier of process solutions.

So it’s very possible that the organizations our guests are with may use Alfa Laval or even our competitors’ products. This does not mean that we, the hosts or Alfa Laval are endorsing any of the companies guests or the specific ideas that we discuss.