Interview with Emily King

Transcript

[Sheldon Young]
Welcome to the No Footprints podcast brought to you by Alfa Laval. I am Sheldon Young.

[Jason Moreau]
And I’m Jason Moreau.

[Sheldon Young]
And we’re here to talk about impact and to share the efforts behind making sustainability real friend.

I went to Maine. I went to Maine. I did that.

[Jason Moreau]
Uh, I saw pictures. I was very jealous.

[Sheldon Young]
Yes.

[Jason Moreau]
I am also a new England boy, not quite as far North as Maine, but, uh, the pictures were instantly recognizable and instilled me with a strong sense of nostalgia.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. You’re you’re from like, you know, Southern part of England. So you’re kind of a Flatlander.

[Jason Moreau]
Flatlander. Exactly. Yes.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. I, one thing that’s so funny, it’s like, um, and the reason I brought up me, I’ll tell you in a second, um, I immediately go home and, you know, my, my, my accent is relatively neutral, you know, most of the time, but when I go home, like within a couple of hours of talking to people that have the main accent, I just revert. I, my whole brain, everything reverts and it’s thick, you know, it’s like, I’m just catching myself in the car now, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely there and it’s just like, it is a repressed memory that just surfaces itself.

And it just comes out and I’m not, it’s bad, not bad at all. I don’t mind it, but it’s just like, it’s so strange how our brains work. Sometimes it’s like, it can’t help, but it’s totally subconscious.

It just happens. And I just find myself talking like I’m like, I’m a youngster again.

[Jason Moreau]
I think it’s a, I mean, you know, I would say probably just the evolutionary wise. It’s a survival technique, right? Like, how do you, how do you basically say I’m part of the tribe?

Like you look and you sound like everybody else around you. Right.

[Sheldon Young]
And so I think good answer. I’d let’s a good thought.

[Jason Moreau]
I don’t know if it’s correct, but that is my role with that.

[Sheldon Young]
I think it’s just me, you know, connecting to my roots, I guess, exactly. So I can feel like I’m part of the crew again. Yeah.

I, okay. I, I can, I get that. I get that.

Well, the reason I bring up me, it’s, I had a wonderful time. So my, my family and all the things I do and all that, but. Um, out of this comes a little bit of a sustainability story.

And I’m going to tell again, I’m going a little bit on supposition here, but it’s not really, it’s, it’s factual, but it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, I’m sure people will try to debate around it. So the main lobster catch main lobster is a big cropped or product of the state. Right.

Certainly. And you know, what we have definitely been seeing is a declining catch in terms of pounds, you know, dollars. You can argue because price of lobster goes up and down, but declining pounds.

And there’s, again, there’s several reasons for, it’s not all connected to sustainability. There are regulation stuff. It is this things that are happening, but there are no doubt that there is an impact that is happening by the warming ocean, uh, and where it tends to happen.

It’s, you know, a lot of, uh, you can either catch lobster is kind of we’ll call it inshore offshore. Offshore is farther out. It takes you longer time to get out there, a deeper waters.

You typically need a bigger boat, uh, if the weather kicks up or something like that. And, and so what we’ve seen is warming waters, particularly in where it’s more shallow. There’s lobsters live on the bottom, right?

And so there’s kind of a Goldilocks zone for a lobster that is in, it’s around a 10 degree range, 54 to 64. Is they kind of their Goldilocks zone where they like to live and they thrive. You get outside of that zone and you start to have problems.

Uh, the, the lobsters, uh, they can get shell diseases, all kinds of stuff that can happen. Uh, and the, the magic number, the, the, the really scary number is 68 for, for, for what marine biologists or something will tell you that’s kind of like, Ooh, red zone, that’s not great for a lobster.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Well, what we’re seeing is over the last, it’s like the eighties or so. See the steady increase in water temperature. Again, people can argue whether they want to say this is natural happening.

I’m like, okay, it might be, but there’s plenty of data that would argue that there was an impact that happens. Um, there was no climate impact and we’ve seen a three degree rise, uh, in the, in the, in the base temperatures, particularly the surf, that’s the surface, but we’re starting to see that. That zone in the deep water, uh, uh, in the, I’m gonna call it when you’re in the, the shallower parts of where they normally catch lobsters, you’re in the mid sixties, pushed into the higher sixties, deeper water, you’re still in the fifties, so deeper water, this, the catch is still kind of there, but where it’s getting shallower, it’s getting more and more scarce to catch lobsters.

Um, and that’s a problem for those that don’t go offshore and things like that. And it’s part of this issue that we’re seeing with the catch. And so you say, how do you make the sting be real?

Well, it’s making itself real, uh, as, uh, as, as a real impact. Cause what happens is the lobsters move away from that warmer water. They move north into more Canadian waters or they’ll go deeper.

Yeah. They go deeper. Yeah.

So, uh, you definitely see here now, again, I’ve scratched the surface on, on what’s, on what’s happening overall. There’s again, there’s lots of impact stuff that happens on the, on why that number is lower. But the facts are there, like the data is fact is that, you know, the water is getting warmer.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
And so we have to think of that, right. And so, you know, what can we listen, you know, listen to scientists, understand what’s driving that from a human perspective. And again, you’d argue there’s lots of factors, sure.

But let’s understand it because otherwise this is where it’s going to manifest itself.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
It’s going to manifest itself in real situations that are most sensitive and this is a sensitive area. So sorry, soapbox a little bit, but that’s, that’s home. And I see people that are going to be impacted by not catching the lobster that they need to catch to make their livelihood.

So, yeah.

[Jason Moreau]
Hmm. Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Hope you have a happier story.

[Jason Moreau]
I do. Uh, I guess, uh, all the way down the far end of the East coast in Florida. Um, they are dealing with a different kind of problem.

They’re dealing with big blooms of sargassum seaweed, um, on a lot of their beaches and it’s, uh, it’s, it’s generally a tourism problem because there’s a smell. There’s a, like, it just, it just makes the beach far less attractive. And so, uh, came across, um, uh, I forget which university down in Florida, uh, Florida Institute of Florida International University, sorry.

Want to get it right. Um, conducted in collaboration with Florida state university in Florida Atlantic, so three actually combined on this, but looking at instead of sargassum as a waste, like they they’re combing the beaches, they’re cleaning the beaches from a tourism standpoint, could they use essentially what’s now a waste for something else and early indications, uh, seem like a pretty decent that it could be, um, an alternative, um, for alginate, which is commonly used to stabilize and thicken foods like ice cream, sauces, and dairy alternatives. Right now comes from like, correct.

Yeah. Um, it’s a natural polysaccharide and, uh, they have other like, we’ll call them like seaweeds or algae sources for this, but they’re looking at, can you take this essentially waste source and then clean it, convert it and harvest the alginate from it. Both to offset the cost of, you know, cleaning up the beaches, but, you know, potentially like, uh, like another revenue stream.

So I thought that was really cool. I also, the, the science bit that I thought was cool was, um, in order to clean it without damaging the nutrients and structure, they can’t use heat. Um, they are looking at high pressure, which high pressure kills any microorganisms in there, but it preserves the useful compounds.

Um, and they said that that’s already fairly common in a lot of food processing, the use of high pressure, uh, versus heat. And I didn’t know that. So I thought that was pretty cool to homogenizer does, but no, I thought that was great.

I, I always really love seeing stories about, um, you know, how do we, how do we sort of incorporate more circularity? How do we take waste streams and make them useful? Um, so no, I, I really liked that one.

And if you’ve ever been to a beach, maybe not main beaches, but certainly maybe in the flatlands of like Rhode Island, um, there’s definitely some seaweed beaches and you walk on them. They do not smell nice. So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Yeah. You know what I love when I go to the beach?

What’s that? Ice cream and ice cream makes me think of dairy and dairy makes me think of today’s guest. Indeed.

Look at that. And look at that. Yeah.

I met today’s guest, uh, at a couple of a few different events. Um, I think it was like a cheese expo was what we, what we landed on. We think we, we met at, but also I’ve seen her at dairy sustainability Alliance and some other events as well.

She is fantastic. Um, really, really approaches sustainability and I’m gonna call it practical way. I think that’s the word I’ll use.

The word is practical. Um, and so, uh, you know, I know on the, on the, uh, podcast, we dive into dairy a few different times here and we will continue to, because it’s such an area of opportunity, such an area where I think some of the best sustainability work is happening. Because, uh, they’re doing, you know, they’ve got a lot of focus on it.

They’ve got people that really put their minds to it. They understand their impact and they’re doing everything they can to move it towards a better, a better place. And so I think it’s, it’s honestly, uh, uh, I’m gonna call it a battle ground, but it’s a, it is a forefront cutting edge in the food processing industry, I think around sustainability, I think, and I’m really excited to talk today’s guest about it.

Cause she is a fantastic voice in it. And she’s kind of a one of a kind big cheese, I think in my, in the word I’ll use, uh, in the world of dairy. And I can’t wait to talk to her.

So what do we say? We go do that, Jason. Let’s do it.

Our guest today has spent nearly a decade, bringing the power of sustainability to the dairy industry. She started her career at Emmy Roth, one of the most respected cheesemakers in the U S where she worked her way from marketing to leading sustainability strategy, she holds a master’s in sustainable management for the university of Wisconsin, and today she’s driving conservation, carbon reduction, and ethical sourcing across the Americas as director of sustainability at Schreiber foods. Emily King, welcome to no footprints.

[Emily King]
Thank you, Sheldon. Thanks, Jason. It’s a pleasure to be here with you both.

Uh, what an introduction. I don’t think I can top that. Uh, I want you in on like all of my meetings so that you can just chime in and introduce me because that’s better than I ever do.

Uh, so thank you for that.

[Sheldon Young]
I’ll give you the recording. I’ll give you the recording.

[Emily King]
You just play it on like a boom box. Cause you walk in the room. That’s perfect.

That’s perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

So happy to be here to talk cheese, to talk sustainability, to talk conservation and to, you know, especially talk about my journey, what I’m seeing in the industry and, you know, how Schreiber plays a role in all of them.

[Sheldon Young]
Absolutely. Yeah. I think, uh, I remember seeing you for the first time and meeting for the first time, I think it was two or three years ago.

I can’t remember it. Uh, dairy sustainability Alliance. And, uh, I think you were giving a talk on something.

Uh, is it dairy sustainability or cheese? I forget. I mix them all up.

[Emily King]
I think it was cheese expo. Yeah. Yeah.

So I remember meeting you, um, at cheese expo. Uh, yeah. Which was wonderful.

Uh, and I was giving a talk on product carbon footprint. Miracle that I can remember that far back, but yeah, I think that’s what the talk was.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. And there were like two or three of you. I still have connections with today and, uh, have worked in one shape or form, but I’m like, oh, she’s really cool.

She, you, you had the right, the vibe on sustainability and dairy. I’m like, okay. Uh, I want, I knew I wanted to get you on the podcast.

I’m so glad it could be here. So I guess let’s just kind of kick off with your, your journey here. I mean, I gave you, I gave the brief bio version.

Tell us about your journey in sustainability and in dairy.

[Emily King]
Yeah. So it’s, it’s an interesting story to be sure. I think that a lot of people that end up in sustainability that, you know, kind of miss the boat on going to school specifically for sustainability or conservation, you know, right.

Yeah. It’s, it’s much more prevalent now. Um, but we all have our interesting steps that we took to get where we are today.

And so mine actually started about 15 years ago, uh, got out of undergrad and I was a journalism and photography major. And I was going to go out and work in national geographic and, you know, go chase animals around the jungle, um, you know, kindly so that I can take their photo with a camera, let’s keep that straight. Um, and so, you know, coming out as a, as a writer, uh, and moving to Madison, I was looking for really any job that I could get just writing full time.

And anybody in that arena knows that, you know, that’s kind of the game you play coming out of the gate. And, um, sure enough, being a Wisconsin native and moving to its capital city, where do I get a job at the cheese market news? Uh, so I worked there, uh, for, for a little over a year.

Um, it’s, it’s a wonderful publication for our industry. It’s been around for a long time. And I was very, very happy to be able to spend time there.

And, and then I had this opportunity to come up at Emmy Ross where I could kind of flex my creative muscles a little bit more like that artistic side that I have and still be able to write. Well, lo and behold, um, I ended up running a food truck for a couple of years, working in national trade shows, um, doing food service strategy, doing food photography, doing video work, you name it in the marketing sphere. And I’ve done it.

Um, I got to travel all over with that company. I fell in love, you know, with specialty food makers with really the salt of the earth folks that, that drive what is so special about, um, you know, the, the state in general, but also about Wisconsin. You know, I’m very passionate about what we have here and we, we make world-class cheese.

And so it was very cool to be a part of that. And then, I don’t know about, I would say like 2017, I started thinking, you know, I I’m hitting, I’m hitting the grand old age of 30. Uh, so I must start thinking about my future.

Uh, but you know, I had had my fun, sowed my wild oats, you know, in my twenties and had a great time. And I was just looking for a way really that I could make a positive impact on the world. And it kind of started like on the trade show circuit when I saw all over this waste, wondered, you know, do we really all need to fly?

They’re, they’re a good time.

[Sheldon Young]
I mean, Sheldon, we met, you know, there’s a lot of benefit to them for sure.

[Emily King]
A hundred percent, a hundred percent. So I’m not, you know, not saying that at all. And so then I started thinking, well, you know, I love conservation.

I always have. And so then I looked around, um, and I was like, okay, sustainability. I think that’s, that’s going to be the niche.

And I was like engineering maybe, or maybe I’ll go be a lawyer. And then every lawyer I talked to said, oh my gosh, don’t be a lawyer.

[Sheldon Young]
No offense to our lovely lawyer friends, but I love you all, love you all.

[Emily King]
Uh, uh, so serendipitously Emmy group who owns, who’s based in Switzerland, um, and owns Emmy Ross was looking for sustainability ambassadors at each of their subsidiaries. And so my hand popped up, I think faster than my, my synapse was fired. Uh, and I luckily was then able to get a full-time position in the, in that world and work not only, you know, on our plants in Wisconsin, but also focus on water globally.

And I fell in love with the idea that, you know, we, we can understand that, you know, dairy, it uses resources. I think that’s all you really have to know. And so we have to protect those resources to ensure the health of our, you know, ecological landscape, the health of people and, you know, to have the privilege to be able to continue to create these things, um, and these wonderful juices.

So I, I worked on that for a while with Emmy and then, uh, an opportunity at Shriver came up and I was really interested in, okay, I understand, uh, you know, the, the environment when it comes to specialty cheese, the demographics, the people who, who purchased that have, it’s kind of this added benefit of, of the affluence it takes to be able to afford cheese is $25 a pound, right? And to be able to, you know, even just have the bandwidth to care about the stories behind that. But I wanted to learn how to make sustainability happen at scale and happen in a commodity market.

And what are the drivers and the catalysts for that? So I’ve been at Shriver for a couple of years now. Um, and like you said, Sheldon, I am the director of the Americas.

So I work on our, uh, with our plants in the U S Mexico and Brazil.

[Jason Moreau]
Fantastic. How do you, so at your level, um, what does the team look like? And then like, how down in the weeds do you get in order to sort of make sustainability real?

Cause sometimes it’s sustainability. It’s like a big umbrella. So like specifically for Shriver, like how does it, how does it actually come into being and yeah, what’s the size of the team and like the different roles and responsibilities?

[Emily King]
Really good question. So we operate the sustainability team pretty leanly. Uh, we have me and then a director in Europe.

Uh, but we also have experts that are embedded in other departments throughout the organization. And frankly, I, that’s how I see, um, the sustainability world and professional positions evolving is that they become entrenched within the organization because it’s just how you’re doing business. It’s not a nebulous department, you know, that just starts like poking the bear when they need some money.

Right. Uh, so the expertise is really disseminated throughout the organization. And, you know, in terms of what I work on, maybe it’s old hat to say, like, I work on something different every day, but I work on something different every hour, you know, and it’s, it’s from talking to NGOs about involvement in our geographies, you know, to Stewart, good land practices to, you know, troubleshooting a logistics problem with our waste stream in Texas or somewhere, you know, so it really runs the gamut, but what I become obsessive about when it comes, you know, to the echelons of an organization, it’s really reaching the people who are doing the work that to me, um, obviously you need the buy-in at an executive letter level, you need to ensure that you have that support, um, but the empowerment and the way that cultures that I’ve seen at least in all my years in dairy, uh, is that it’s going to start at the plant and that’s where the most attention really needs to be paid because like I said, those are the people doing the work. And so I, I like to spend as much time as I can working through issues with them, more granularly getting involved with the everyday logistics because I need, you know, we all need, you know, those things to happen and it’s extra work sometimes.

I mean, sustainability is not an easy button by any means. So it’s having the conversation with the boots on the ground to make sure they’re as comfortable as possible with those strategies, um, with the ask and, you know, making it a two way street. Like they have, they need to have agency in the conversation too.

So right now, as we focus really on our own operations primarily, um, for our sustainability work, that’s where my obsession lies.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. That’s a really interesting, you’re saying you’re focusing your own operations. Honestly, I talked, I go to a lot of different sustainability things as do you, a lot of people spend less time there, frankly, because they say scope three is the big one, right?

I mean, I’m going to, I’m going to preempt what I think the answer might be. It’s like, you can’t control that.

[Emily King]
Yeah. And you know, yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s a good question and it’s, it’s been, you always have to, when you come into an organization, you have to understand, you know, a new set of priorities and, and also where the company is in its journey, but also where the company sits in the supply chain.

So compounding those factors, it’s not that we don’t operate or work on scope three because, you know, being an entirely like private label company, our customers are our business. And so we, you know, certainly. Uh, focus on, on their priorities as well, collaborate with them, but where the company is in this journey is it’s growing really, really fast.

And so we need to refocus on, on what we can control to your point, Sheldon. And, you know, Shriver, we don’t own any of our own milk supply. Uh, we, we go entirely through co-ops and it’s not an excuse.

Our co-ops are wonderful. And there are lots of opportunities to work with them on carbon abatement on the farm level. So right now, you know, we want to make sure that we’ve got our house in order is the way that I think about it.

And you know, and you guys know, but scope three is evolving so quickly and there are a lot of changes with some of the major players on how they’re approaching scope three and agricultural, like a region egg. So right now it’s get the house in order and make sure we’re there for customer collaboration. But then, you know, we have, we have some decisions to make, frankly, on, on how we engage in, in the agricultural medium.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, it’s, it’s refreshing to hear it, frankly, because again, I don’t think a lot of people have their, their thinking hasn’t evolved to that, uh, or hasn’t focused on that, I guess. Right. Uh, so when you sit down with a, with a plan or facility or a group of people or facilities, how, what are you aligning them to, how do you get them on the same page?

Like what are the metrics or the, uh, I guess common ground you find that they’ll care about it from their operations perspective and you care about from sustainability perspective, what do you find works on getting that alignment?

[Emily King]
Yeah, great question. And I, you know, it’s all about striking that balance, right? And so if sustainability is a book at a company, every plant is a chapter.

You know, there’s, there’s no ubiquity when it comes to, you know, what, of course there’s, uh, opportunities for replicability when it comes to efficiency projects, et cetera, but every plant has its own culture, has, you know, its own vibe. And so the most successful thing, or, you know, methodology for me is to understand what’s going to work for each facility. And so to, but to start the conversation, we have to look at the goals that we have and, you know, as Shriver and understand how each plant can hit those.

So, um, just quickly, our goals for Shriver are by 2034, we just finished rebaselining with SBTI. Uh, I felt like popping a bottle of champagne at 10 in the morning when we got approval. Uh, we are promising to reduce our scope one and two emissions by 58%.

Our scope three emissions by 42.4%. And then packaging, um, because again, private labels. So we promised to identify and we are in the process of doing so sustainable alternative to all of our packaging by 2032 and then to be zero waste, uh, to landfill globally by 2030. And so these, these are very big goals that we have, frankly, just for our, for our house.

And so if I start the conversation, I already have the data, you know, on these facilities, I can do a comparative analysis on how efficient one yogurt plant is on using energy compared to another. I can do the same with water, et cetera. The thing that I work on most with plants is waste and getting to that zero waste.

I think it’s the most challenging.

[Sheldon Young]
It’s the, yeah, go ahead. How are you defining waste? Cause there’s lots of aspects in my, in my little pea brain here.

I’m thinking of different things here, but, uh, tell me how you kind of define waste, uh, tribe.

[Emily King]
Yeah, for sure. So this is where we’re talking mostly about solid waste coming out of our facilities that don’t have, um, a natural home, so to speak, or, you know, we’re, we’re not making revenue. So like any, any way, most dairy company, you know, you’re going to sell off your way for other uses.

That’s not included as waste. Um, if it were, I think almost every dairy plant just by pounds might be zero waste because it’s, it’s, there’s so much of it coming out, but, uh, mostly it’s, you know, what’s going to end up in your, what could end up in the landfill and what do you do with that? And the, the problem always comes or the problem is the wrong word.

The hill that you have to climb is that those alternatives, sometimes they are more expensive. And typically it requires more work. You’re going to have to put the cardboard in a compactor.

Um, you’re going to, you know, have to take apart these spools to save room, but they’re, you know, rigid plastic, easy to recycle, but they’re gigantic. So you have to compress them. It’s work, it’s real physical work.

And so again, you know, the, I can look at the data and say, okay, I think these are a few opportunities for your facility. How can I help you make that a reality? And, you know, it’s basically handing over, not the reins entirely.

It’s saying, I want to walk next to you to figure this out. I don’t want to like push you from behind. I don’t want to be marching out in front, telling you how to do everything.

Like, let’s figure this out together. But another last aspect to this, that is a piece of advice I always give, especially to the youth coming into sustainability is that you, you have to know when to put something down and you have to be able to say no to it, at least for the time being, until, you know, you gain momentum elsewhere, you gain more trust, that’s important too, you know, because, you know, I can list all of these goals, but they’re so dependent on, they’re fully dependent on first in the first in conversation. And so developing that trust is really what I focus on at first.

[Jason Moreau]
Fantastic. You, you’re obviously sort of setting these goals and doing the right things. I think the word you used was, was the privilege of staying in business and continuing to sort of make these, these really sort of amazing, almost artisanal products.

What do you see from sort of the consumer side? Uh, you know, do you see that consumers are demanding this more and more of companies? Do you, do you see, or do you see that like you’re ahead of the curve maybe?

And that gives you, you know, a little bit of window to sort of like gain market share, mind share, you know, as the consumers catch up, like where do you, where do you see the market from the consumer perspective?

[Emily King]
Excellent question, Jason. So, all right, there’s a few answers I have to give. And the overall one right now, and I’m talking US specific for purposes of this conversation and this question right now, and we’re all well aware of it.

Economically, people are most concerned about cost. And when you have this, you know, kind of top down squeezing of costs around fuel, groceries, et cetera, sustainability is a value add that is not requisite for like day-to-day living. And so that, I think in itself, uh, just historically you can see when, when things are healthier, when the economy is healthier, when, you know, there’s, there’s not so much conflict and I’ll just call it Michigan, uh, occurring when it’s calm, people have the bandwidth to consider these things.

And so right now I don’t think consumers, and this is my supposition, but just as a pattern, you know, I don’t see that consumers are going to be prioritizing sustainability on label or anything like that. Um, and then I think we have to differentiate between different demographics. So, like I said before, like with Emmy, you’ve got the specialty products, you’ve got the fancy cheese, right?

And so they’re just, they have higher expectations, um, than, you know, say like for a cheese slice or something like that, that they want to throw on a burger over the summer. Um, and it should be American cheese. I will die on that hill.

Um, on a burger, always, uh, always, I love American cheese. I like cheddar. I’m a cheddar guy.

Fine. Okay. It’s close enough.

It’s close enough. Um, so I do think, uh, and it, you know, it depends on, on the age range as well, but I also think that ties into general income. Um, the one note I want to make here is that what we’ve seen from the data, especially over the course of the last, say five years, is that everybody has great intentions.

Everybody wants to buy the most sustainable piece of food that is sitting on that shelf. What we know is that by a large margin, price still dominates for the most part. And I get it.

I make that choice myself. Sometimes that accessibility issue. I think everybody wants their food to be sustainable.

They want to be able to make the responsible choice, but the gap in price is a preventative factor at the moment.

[Sheldon Young]
Absolutely. And they, and frankly, for consumers, they can’t understand, honestly, they comprehend the difference in sustainability between a product. Right.

It’s like, they don’t know while it goes, right. They just, you know, it’s interesting. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Emily King]
Most definitely.

[Sheldon Young]
Right. So, um, I guess, so obviously you have to reconcile that, right. And that’s a pressure you’re receiving as an organization.

I’m sure it’s like, you have to make products that are going to be competitive. Uh, they’re going to be delicious. They’re going to be all the things you want to be.

And you have a commitment as a company that you want to be sustainable. What I always like to tell Jason with the work that I do with clients and stuff like that. It’s like sustainability, productivity, profitability.

They are, they can’t be trade-offs. They have to be kind of a partnership. How do you bring that to the, the, uh, I guess to the table when you’re making decisions as an organization to say, I want to do X projects, how does sustainability play into that dialogue?

[Emily King]
It really, really depends the answer. Um, you know, I, again, just, just getting to work with some of the undergrads in this space. I always say you, you’re not necessarily going to be in sales.

Um, but you are going to have to learn how to sell. And what I mean by that is how to tailor a message to a particular stakeholder within the corporation. And typically you’re going to want to get buy-in from somebody, you know, before you walk into that executive boardroom, um, you want the support departmentally.

Now, there are a few aspects, you know, to the, to the affordability, let’s say of sustainability. And what, what I think has been shown is that in terms of your own operations, you can focus on ROI positive projects. And then you’re going to hit a precipice where the remainder, if you can’t source that renewable energy and you have to build it, especially it’s going to become an expense and, you know, I think waste can, can run that same track where doing the right thing with your waste is going to cost you a little bit more money.

Those things don’t typically fortunately require a ton of conversation. Um, you know, there’s, I think there’s that sense of ownership, um, that makes it a little bit easier to kind of blur the lines on what quote unquote good ROI is. It’s really in scope three, when you’re having those conversations where there is no ROI there, you know, the, but you mentioned, I mean, there’s no traditional ROI, but you know, it’s hard to get out of the paper.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah.

[Emily King]
Yes, it is. It’s impossible sometimes. Um, but you know, looking at, I think you said sustainability, productivity and profitability.

Yep. Um, those things still exist. It’s just, they don’t look like what we’re used to.

So typically the, I suppose the positioning you have is to say that this is about resilience. And, you know, we can, you can use climate risk assessments. You can go a lot of materiality assessments.

You can have a lot of data to back that up. But if you use a real life example, that’s, that’s something I’ve begun doing is here’s an example of a farmer in that region who is struggling because of climate change, this is one of the, part of the impetus for embarking on projects like these is no matter what you think of the constructs around agriculture, um, you know, how subsidies are disseminated, the equity of the financing that’s available, we still need them for the business, you know, that we are entirely dependent on farming, which is in turn, entirely dependent on the climate.

And so the climate is business and it’s pretty much every business on earth. Does that work? Not most of the time.

Um, I think it, it, it needs another catalyst. It needs a customer, um, pushing for, for a project like this. Um, but you know, to be candid, the, the, like I said, ownership goes one to packaging waste, but the rest of it, unless there’s a customer or a regulation, and I’m not saying that this is a observation of the industry.

And I think one of our biggest hurdles is that there’s the question who pays for it, right? Who pays for the farms that you don’t own in your value chain? And my answer is, well, if nobody does now, we all do eventually.

And so there’s the hot potato, you know, of, well, if they want to do it, they should pay for it or the farmers should pay for it or, and really, I think the answer is going to be that we have to pool our resources and we have to have we have to have farmer led efforts to, to help us move this forward more quickly. Because we also get mired when we get into these projects, you know, with a lot of contracting and paperwork and yeah, which, which is great, we need, you know, very good governance around these projects as well, so it’s necessary. Um, but the way that I would like to see the industry go is that we all pay for it.

We all pay for it continuously. And, you know, we, I don’t know what that looks like exactly. I have some ideas, but because as of right now with the capitalistic structure, you know, to which we’re all accustomed, sustainability, it doesn’t fit all the time, and I think we have to acknowledge that.

[Jason Moreau]
Do you, so from that industry perspective, um, what, what are those, you know, maybe handful of like big, we’ll call them like challenges or hills that you have to climb that you would align all of those stakeholders around, you know, like if you had to pick maybe like two or three, what are those like, you know, those, those levers that like could, could really make a difference.

[Emily King]
Sure. Great question. Uh, it’s, I could think about this question for a very long time and probably come up with a different answer every five minutes, but, um, top of mind is water, uh, we, that is the biggest challenge and I think the earliest challenge we are all going to face as an industry, particularly looking at the American West and the struggles that they have, especially in what was a very dry winter.

So if we could rally around something, one particular issue that takes precedent is water conservation and water quality. We need to have a lot more accountability, I believe, and how water is used. I also think that it’s difficult because water is incredibly cheap and in the state, that’s the, that’s the, yeah, yeah, it really is until it is.

Yeah. Yes. And you know, I think we have to protect, um, you know, where, where the water is.

I, I, for many years have been concerned about the great lakes region and how that could be affected by investors coming from, from out West and what big money could potentially do to our landscape here. Um, and frankly, I think we have to be more mindful about where we grow and what we grow. So maybe just kind of branching off of water conservation quality is let’s grow things where they’re meant to be.

And, and not try like in the, you know, in the central Valley in California, that was completely altered back in the sixties. And they’re running out of water. Um, and it seems to me that a lot of the, um, incredibly wealthy folks that own it are just going to run it out.

And that’s immensely unfortunate. And I could also probably plug data centers into this conversation too, but it’s water, water, water, carbon is massively important too. I mean, that’s why it’s so difficult, the wicked problem and climate change.

So yeah, I have to say water first, carbon second.

[Jason Moreau]
Do you, do you see that as like follow up question? Do you see that as an opportunity, right? Cause it seems like data centers and water usage specifically around data centers have kind of captured the public attention or zeitgeist.

Do you see that as an opportunity to broaden the conversation around water usage, conservation in other industries, right? Like if the, if the public’s already paying attention to it, like, do you like channel that energy and momentum for like bigger, more, maybe more meaningful change?

[Emily King]
Yeah. Ideally. Yes.

Right. You gotta, it’s like, you gotta hook your wagon to the momentum. Um, but you know, to that end, I, and it’s unfortunate, but I don’t think that that focus is going away anytime soon.

Um, between data centers, between all of the fires that are happening out west. You know, it’s, I think going to remain in the lexicon of the American public. And so there is an opportunity to rally around it.

Um, and I think, you know, beyond the fact that it’s top of mind, it’s tactile. It’s a physical entity and it’s something that we all interact with every single day. And so you, I think that can develop just a little bit more buy-in generally.

I mean, carbon can just be that, you know, like out in the outside, it’s like, you know, just, um, it’s the air. And so obviously those effects are being seen, but we can make this direct connection between whether it’s a drinking water or, you know, in Madison, uh, we have beautiful lakes everywhere. Right.

But there are times of the year where it’s not advisable to go into them. There are certain channels where it’s not advisable for pregnant women to eat the fish that come out of them. So, yeah, I think that it touches all of our lives.

So although right now is, is a very notable time with data centers. Um, I, I, I just don’t see this going away. So that rally opportunity, I think is going to stick around.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Yeah. Certainly lots of, lots of levers are available to us.

So I’ll just leave it at that. Right. Yeah.

Uh, and I think, uh, again, I hope, hopefully we start to see, uh, just again, a public discussion around it. Uh, again, I think it can coexist. It can, it all can coexist.

It just going to take, honestly, like a thoughtful planning. I think, you know, the fact that you mentioned it right away, it’s like, you know, people have to get out of this. I’m not going to blink first date.

Right.

[Emily King]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
And they have to recognize, look, we all have to blink a little and say, let’s, let’s, there’s a problem. It’s one way ship the other. It’s a no sum zero sum game.

If you, if you don’t address it, uh, because we all lose at the end, you know, it’s just like, uh, who loses last, I guess. Um, so I think it’s, uh, how do you approach that? Right.

Um, I want to shift the vibe a little bit to complimenting Schreiber. When I, when I, I researched kind of the companies and the, and the people I talked to a little bit. Sustainability.

We talked about a lot of water. We talked about energy. We talked about waste.

It’s also people. It’s also your employees and your associates and the things that you commit to your community, right? I see Schreiber doing a lot in that space.

Uh, and that’s the compliment part. Uh, I want to understand how you decide where to put your chips. I mean, uh, what’s your engagement process to decide how you move sustainability in there from a community and, uh, associate perspective?

[Emily King]
Very good question. Are we talking solely sustainability or all of our altruistic?

[Sheldon Young]
I think it’s, I mean, I, I, I, part of the sustainability umbrella that changed and talked about, it’s like, you know, it is caring for your people, sustainable people is all that stuff, right? So I think it’s, it’s a broader community thing as well. So I’ll, I’ll let you answer how you want.

Um, I think I’m curious as to how you, as a, as an organization commit to the obvious causes that matter to you.

[Emily King]
Yeah. Yeah. So I think what struck me immediately joining Schreiber was how incredibly kind and helpful all of my colleagues are.

And I mean that sincerely, um, it’s, you know, we have that. Mid-west nice, uh, reputation, but vast majority of them are just, we’re there to help one another be successful. And I suppose it’s like chicken and the egg.

Did that come first or did, you know, all of this other work come first and it helped us all be better people. Um, but you know, to, to decide the initiative. Oh, that we pursue, you know, it may not be the most romantic answer when it comes to sustainability, right.

But it’s sometimes it’s the opportunity that arises sometimes it’s driven by Schreiber. Um, I don’t want to sound like a fly in the wind because there certainly is a thoughtful process around what we do. Um, and so, you know, first we have to put it in the traditional jar, right.

Like, uh, you know, how, how is, is this going to make us the money back in a couple of years, that sort of thing. But talking about the rest of it, like, let’s get outside the official strategy. Right.

Right. And all of the work that we do on the ground. Um, frankly, I think first it’s just the culture.

Um, it’s who Schreiberians, I suppose would be the term, um, right. Trademark. It’s one of those things, like I’ve had the thought, but never said it out loud.

So I, I guess this is a good time to just to experiment with that. You’ve introduced it, the concept is there. It’s out there.

It’s out there now. Uh, so yeah, I, I think, well, first we have, um, a wonderful ESG council. We have a board of directors.

We also have a community relations department. And so every event, um, you know, is, is funneled up to ensure that it matches the set of criteria that we have for engagement. We also have business resource groups throughout the organization, like pride, um, veterans, um, you know, many others that I’m forgetting.

I think there’s six or seven. And, uh, so really what those are, are a reflection of the people that work at Schreiber. And so the work that we do in the community is simply a reflection of, of the people we are and the communities that we come from.

And so, you know, I, I serve on the pride group and so it’s just ensuring that our partners, um, that are LGBTQIA plus, you know, are, they feel safe. Um, and so it’s, we have this very inclusive environment and I think although we have all of these parameters around what we do, all ideas are welcome. So for instance, you know, wanting to go out and pick up, frankly, it was mostly cigarette butts, um, in the neighborhood, like, so like around Earth Week, you know, let’s like, let’s get some volunteer ideas together.

And so we had a few folks who, you know, went out and picked up garbage. Um, I was one of them and like I said, Green Bay is very clean. Um, and so it was just cigarette butts, but, uh, yeah, so that’s the great part about it, I think, is that we have a big swath of things that, that we do in the community, but at its core, and this includes sustainability, it’s because the people who work at Shriver care about these things.

It is just merely, you know, it is a mirroring of the people who work there.

[Sheldon Young]
Love it. Love it. You kind of answered this question a little bit.

I’ll ask it again, just to see if there’s any notes you want to add to it. Um, someone starting out their career again, you, you’ve gotten to stand by kind of raising your hand and say, I want in, right. What I guess is, is that the advice you’d give someone?

It’s like, just, you’ll find the opportunity and plug yourself in or what else would someone do if they, if they wanted to start in sustainability today?

[Emily King]
This is a question. I wish, I wish I had a perfect answer for it. I know.

No, I mean, I kind of went, you know, blank over tea kettle into it a little bit. You know, if you really dissect what the situation was, yeah, I’m just very, very fortunate and very grateful. And, um, I think it’s a privilege to wake up every day and do what I do.

And I want as many people on the planet to feel that when they wake up in the morning as possible. Um, so, you know, like I said, I, I was part of a program that connected me with a lot of undergraduates, um, mostly undergraduates, I should say there were some grad students as well. Um, and that was the question I got a lot was, okay, so I’ve got this major in sustainability or conservation now, what, and how do I get a job in this economy?

Uh, but yeah, it’s, it’s challenging and I, what I, I never wanted to misrepresent my own story, um, you know, giving advice. Um, you know, I think going out and getting my master’s was, was a choice that is, was right for me, but it might not be right for everyone. You know, like, I think that we’re getting a lot better at having very specific degrees or certificates.

And so I think that’s a good opportunity for those starting out is if you have a focus area and understand that there’s a difference between, not that you, it’s impossible to move between the worlds, but there’s a difference between corporate responsibility or corporate sustainability rather and conservation. So if you’re more interested, you know, in going out and digging in the dirt, which I also love, it’s not a judgment, uh, you know, then, you know, look for those types of certificates. They have a lower cost of entry.

It gives you more knowledge. It also helps you make connections. And to me, that’s the big part that you should look for really at this point in time is, I mean, I, I would say if I won the lottery, I would go to school forever.

Like I’m that person, um, uh, because I, I want to learn everything, but you know, I, and I will fail, but you know, I think that just being able to look at a program, see who gets involved, are you going to be connected with the company? Um, that’s the most important aspect. If, if the end goal is really going to look for a job on the flip side of that.

The advice I have to give is that there’s any opportunity to get involved with those initiatives at work, take it, raise your hand, lead them, get visibility that way. Um, and then frankly, another way is volunteering. And I know, you know, it’s, it’s tough.

We’re all so, so busy. Um, uh, but if you can carve out a little bit of time and just volunteer, that’s another way you’re going to meet people from different organizations. Um, and then otherwise just check the boards constantly and understand too, that just, it’s, it’s not my favorite piece of advice because there’s, there’s the part of me that’s a dreamer and then there’s the pragmatist.

So obviously keep looking for that job that like makes you jump out of your seat when you see it. Like that’s, you know, like I said, I think we all, we deserve that. Like we deserve that opportunity to do the things that we have passion around that, you know, there’s nothing on earth that anybody wants to get up and it’s like, hell yeah, I get to do that again today.

Like there’s no job on earth that we can be like realistic about that. Right. But so, you know, I think it’s also, especially for entry level, you might have to pick something that’s adjacent to your ideal.

You have to get your foot in the door somewhere that might, you know, be working at one of the big three consulting, but guess what that means. You’re going to meet all of these people from all of these companies that are working on sustainability. So it’s, you know, you’re going to like sustainability folks are, are mostly dreamers where, you know, universalists for the most part, I think.

And I, it’s not that I would ever tell someone to give up on their ideal position or their dream. It’s just knowing that that’s probably not where you’re going to start.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. There’s a journey to get there. There’s no question.

Some people get lucky and, and, and, and, you know, catch the sketch first time, Harry Potter reference Emily. It’s been a delight talking to you about these topics quickly. Someone wants to learn more about Schreiber or the sustainability journey or even yourself.

How would they do that?

[Emily King]
Well, I would recommend going to schreiberfoods.com, particularly take a look at our doing good through food reports. We released that back in April. It’s a good overview of not only sustainability and our goals, but all of the wonderful things that Schreiber does around food safety, taking care of our partners, learning more about me.

I don’t know. I have a LinkedIn. But if you want to connect, you know, definitely always up for a conversation.

You know, I think the more people I talk to, the more I, I learn just like learning from you two today. So yeah. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

This has been a lot of fun. Uh, and yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s been a blast. So thank you both so much.

[Sheldon Young]
Thank you. Welcome. Emily, Emily, Emily, what a great conversation.

I enjoyed it. Jason guest.

[Jason Moreau]
Awesome.

[Sheldon Young]
Really? Right. Right.

You know, just, uh, I love it when you have someone, uh, in an interview situation that they’re just, they’re just kind of natural at it. You know, she’s a natural kind of communicator and, um, just has that ability to connect. Uh, I always love hearing her journey.

Oh, you know what? I noticed something. Was that she’s, um, what I’m seeing is, I don’t know whether it’s just nature, the people we know what I’m finding a lot of our guests.

Have a background in marketing, right? It kind of is connecting a lot. I think, again, I, I give you my theory on it in a second, but I’m just saying it because I think there’s still hope for you is what I’m saying.

[Jason Moreau]
I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Some days I wonder, and then, you know, somebody like you comes along and is like, Hey kid, you know what your, your best days are in front of you.

Yeah, exactly. That’s great. Thank you so much.

[Sheldon Young]
Thank you. No, no, but it all serious. Yeah.

I, you know, I, you know, I tease you, you’re, you’re fantastic. You’re more knowledgeable than most people I know at this stage when it comes to sustainability. And, uh, but Emily was fantastic.

I really enjoyed her story. I enjoyed learning about her approach to sustainability and, and, uh, how they connect kind of at, at, um, the importance of each factory, right. And each facility and how it’s different, right.

And how each has its own culture and that importance of trust. And I think we say that word a lot in the space and, you know, it just is really interesting and I was going to say, I forgot to say, you know, why I think the marketing people are, I guess they do so quote well and sustainability. It’s it’s, it’s the story.

It’s the importance of communication and story. And I think obviously she brought that she brings out, I remember seeing her when I watched her, uh, uh, uh, speak at the conferences I was at, and that is definitely a forte. She tells a story and a way that makes, that brings the listener in, connects them to the problem, makes it real, makes it tangible, makes it feasible and realistic, and then you say, you walk away saying, oh, I can do this or that makes sense, uh, you know, I’m going to take that and do something with it.

And that person really gets dairy sustainability. And that to me is kind of her super strength and why having her, I’m sure Schreiber really enjoys having her there for that very reason.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you may have turned some people off in the sense of like, man, in order to do sustainability, I have to go through the dark forest of marketing.

And I’m here to say that, you know, you don’t necessarily have to, you can shortcut, because I think she, she even framed it as like learning to sell. Right. And so if you kind of look at the overlap of sales and marketing, you’re really just talking about good communication.

And it’s, it’s really all of those points that you just highlight the fact that she doesn’t take this sort of like uniform approach to every facility. Right. She’s, she’s really personalizing the message for the people there.

She’s understanding where they’re starting from. She’s gaining their trust. I think she used the term I’m walking with them versus like talking at them.

Um, and so, yeah, no, it’s just, it’s just good communication skills all around. Um, but I mean, I think the way you develop those skills is to care enough in the first place about both your audience and the people who you’re trying to partner with and influence, but also the end result, right, which is to improve efficiency, gain, gain some, some more, uh, you know, wins, uh, for sustainability. So no, I, I very much aligned with what she was saying in that regard.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, for sure. And, and again, I think, um, you’re saying it’s, it’s the, the connection and communication for sure. I think it’s also the ability to, I guess, connect the dots.

And, uh, there’s a, in, in our next episode, the story I’m going to open with, we’ll relate back to this moment right now, uh, it is really about making it personal for someone. Right. And it’s about connecting the problem to something that they care about and can move the needle on.

And, uh, and, and something they’re willing to move the needle on and showing them the path. And so, yeah, I, again, all in all, it’s just, I love the, I wrote down the, the one statement, she said there sustainability is a book. Every facility is a chapter.

Right. And I think, uh, you know, I think that’s the case in almost anything, particularly anything you’re trying to change or, or make a, make a move, but you have to think about each stakeholder, um, in each of those facilities and the people within them are stakeholders, right. And how does it impact them and how do you help them see a path?

And so if any, I think you’re right. When it comes to like sustainability, that is such an important. I guess, skill, if you want to make progress in that, particularly in the manufacturing and processing world, you have to be able to weave that path between, uh, their situation, their goals, their needs, the goals of the company with sustainability, the goals of the other stakeholders that get impacted by what you do.

And a path to get it done. Right. At the end of the day, it all has to come together like that.

Oh boy. Oh, good stuff. Good, good stuff.

Um, a couple other things that, that stood out to me, uh, that Congress, this is a difficult conversation. I think we have around the hot potato who who’s paying for it. Who’s paying for it.

And again, it’s always a struggle when it comes to anything sustainably related. I love her answer of like, we kind of all have to pay for it or we all will. Right.

Um, I want to dive more on that topic some someday though, somehow, right. As we have more of these conversations, because just getting people to kind of take that ownership doesn’t always work, doesn’t always work. And how do you move them past that?

How do you get them to say, I am willing to take the risk of putting my funds into this bucket. Right. And then I guess it’s going to take storytellers like, like Emily and others.

[Jason Moreau]
The line that I really liked that she used was, you know, who pays nobody now, but we all do eventually. And I just thought that was a succinct way of, of really framing what’s a complicated argument.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Ah, such a good one.

And finally, the, the last thing that, that stood out to me with her was the conversation around water. Right. Um, you know, particularly around, you know, this is something, again, we’re going to talk about this in the sustainability, uh, New York climate week preview episode, uh, water is the biggest and earliest challenges we are going to face, right?

It’s coming. Uh, that story of water is one. I think we don’t talk about it enough.

And it certainly is one that everyone is going to face one way, shape or form. The chickens will come to roost on water. Uh, because it’s, it’s going to be the hardest one to solve, you know, energy.

It’s hard. Don’t need as hard as well. I’m not trying to take away from it, but you have, or you have the alternatives are there.

We have the alternatives for, for energy, right? They just, it’s a, just a deployment problem, a deployment question. Water is harder to solve for.

It’s harder to solve for it. So it’s again, I’m putting pins in those topics. I think it is certainly ones we’re going to continue to investigate here on no footprint and, uh, I think Emily hit the nail on the head with those.

[Jason Moreau]
No, a hundred percent. Yeah. Water conservation, water accountability.

Um, charging the real value of water. So people value it, you know, kind of within the context of all the value that it does provide. Um, yeah, we’ve, we’ve talked, we’ve kind of touched on these with some of our past guests, but yeah, yeah, but for sure.

I think it’s part of a, of a bigger conversation that, yeah. I’m looking forward to diving into in a little bit more detail.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, absolutely. Well, with that, Jason, I think it is time for us to depart for this conversation. Uh, I think we had a good, uh, good dialogue around it.

And Emily was such a great guest. I want to thank her again for being a part of no, no footprints. If you liked this podcast, please follow like, subscribe, share with your friends and network.

This stuff really matters to us and the success of our show. Make sure to check out our website, nofootprintspodcast.com.

If you have ideas for a topic or a guest, you can send an email to nofootprints.podcast@alfalaval.com a L F a L a V a L. And with that, my friends, I bid you a due.

[Jason Moreau]
Bye everyone.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, let’s go get some ice cream. Our guests come from many industries and companies as we’re talking about how the world makes sustainability real. Our company Alfa Laval is a global supplier of process solutions.

So it’s very possible that the organizations our guests are with may use Alfa Laval or even our competitors’ products, but this does not mean that we, the hosts or Alfa Laval are endorsing any of the company’s guests or the specific ideas that we discuss.