Consumer Power and Sustainability

Transcript

Sheldon Young
Welcome to No Footprints, a podcast brought to you by Alfa Laval. I’m Sheldon Young.

Jason Moreau
And I’m Jason Moreau.

Sheldon Young
We’re here to talk about impact and to share the efforts and people behind making sustainability real. Jason. Hello again, friend.

Jason Moreau
Hello.

Sheldon Young
So before we rock and roll here, just anything in the sustainability world that caught your attention this week?

Jason Moreau
Yeah, randomly. But I think it’s important because we talked about sustainability and we talked about the UN sustainability goals, which, you know, I think are much broader than a lot of people realize, like it gets into like human health and wellbeing and things like that.

Sheldon Young
All that stuff.

Jason Moreau
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so in align with that, yeah, this past week I was doing a bit of a fast and so, you know, focusing on my own health and wellbeing and, you know, minimizing my food imprint for at least that period of time. Right.

Like, so, yeah. So and then before the fast cleaned out my refrigerator, right. So no food waste there, I really went to town.

So, you know, that was my, that was my little sustainability win this week and I feel like the UN would agree. So I don’t think that’s too, too much of a stretch.

Sheldon Young
Good. I like that. I like, I can, I can get down with that.

You, your fast was like a serious one too. You were like, didn’t eat anything for a few days, right? Just water.

Wow. That is, that’s intense. I mean, I give you kudos for being able to do that.

It’s a big mental, mental hurdle, at least it would be for me, but anyways.

Jason Moreau
It is. It is. Yeah.

But it’s become a bit of a practice and yeah, it’s a, it’s a good, it’s a good reset.

Sheldon Young
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, my, mine is not nearly quite so profound.

I was noticing like charging my phone and this little, little thing comes up. I’ve noticed it’s saying optimized charging in the past, right? I get that.

You know, it’ll say charging until like three in the morning or something like that. I believe it’s always said like optimized charging and that’s to save your battery and stuff like that.

Jason Moreau
Right.

Sheldon Young
Right. Well, I noticed it the other day, it said clean energy charging. Yeah.

And so I went, well, that’s interesting. What does that mean? And so I looked it up and apparently since like iOS 16.1 and later, Apple has done this prioritizing the charging during times when the grid is powered by cleaner sources, like solar and wind. Yeah. Right. They actually use the local energy.

It’s only in the U S they do this. They use the local energy data and it’s been around since 2022, I guess, but the first time I noticed, I guess I’m late to the party, but it basically works with your phone data. I think to optimize the battery life as well.

So you don’t, it does extended charging, so it doesn’t like fry your battery, but it also looks for your local grid to see when it’s using cleaner energy and does that. It can also potentially even be cheaper. If you’re charged less for using clean energy, it can actually impact that.

And so I’m like, okay, so I’m a nerd and I’m like, okay, what does that really mean? And again, I couldn’t find any data to that gave me specifics around like the amount of greenhouse gas they estimate that that saves, but I was able to use like an AI and say to estimate it. I said, imagine if everyone didn’t use clean energy, let’s say everyone was on like a fossil fuel energy or something like that, like non-clean, let’s just take the worst case scenario, right?

If you assume 130 million users and the amount of time you charge and all that fun stuff, it works out to be about 237,000 metric tons of CO2 every year. That’s enough for 52,000 cars and 260 million pounds of coal. That is, that is insane, isn’t it?

I mean, it’s just like, again, I know it’s a gross over-assumption of the time of the, sorry, the savings, but I’m like, okay, just make it a worst case just so we can get a magnitude, even if it’s like a quarter of that, you know, pretty impressive to me. And I don’t know, I just thought it was an interesting little exercise to take on, but you know, well, that’s not why we’re here though. I thought it was fun and cool.

We’re here to talk about, you know, the consumer and the power they have over sustainability because, you know, in our industry, it’s a lot of food, beverage, pharma, things like that. A lot of decisions get made assuming that stakeholders are going to care. And so, you know, I said, okay, well, what do we know about that particular topic and how much power do they really have to drive sustainable behavior?

I think a lot of people feel powerless in a way, like, you know, does my opinion really matter? I can’t make a big impact. But so that’s the topic I thought we would kick off today.

It’s a number of factors, obviously, that kind of drive that. And I think at the end of the day, we all want to do better. I think everyone wants to, you know, have a cleaner planet, have safer foods, all the things that a good sustainable practice will be.

The question is, you know, will we pay for it and how much will we demand it of the people we buy from? I think that was the big question.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I really love this topic because everybody is a consumer, right? And also, it might be a little spicy because I think you and I probably evaluate or prioritize things differently.

And therein is the rub, right? Like in terms of on aggregate, you know, are enough people making similar choices to move the needle, move the market, right? So yeah, I’m excited to dive into it.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. I thought you would be. This is a topic I thought would be kind of up your alley because it does, you know, with a lot of data around it, it’s kind of interesting.

But I’ll be honest. When I researched this topic, I found all kinds of, I’m not saying conflicting answers, but the data was all over the place. Like, you know, one thing that came apparently clear to me was that most people at least say they care, right?

Jason Moreau
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah.

People say a lot of things.

Sheldon Young
I know. So, okay. I’ll let you talk about that.

You and I talked about doing a survey and I forgot to pull the data up. I did a little mini-survey. Maybe if I have a second, I’ll pull it up.

But I’d written a question of, you know, would you pay more for X, right?

Jason Moreau
Correct.

Sheldon Young
Is what I wrote the question as, right?

Jason Moreau
Yes.

Sheldon Young
And you were very astute and I’ll let you explain, you know, why that may not be the best question to ask.

Jason Moreau
Right. Well, um, people don’t know what they’re going to do in the future. And, um, I think there’s a lot of, uh, uh, bias or rationalization or different things that kind of come into it.

But generally, uh, people tend to be overly optimistic, um, on a survey. They want to, even anonymous surveys, there’s a lot of data suggests that people will answer in a way that like makes them feel good about themselves. Like look at what a good person I am versus answering honestly or in a way that they feel paints them in a negative way.

And so it’s very ha it’s, it’s, I’m not saying you should never do it, but you should take the answers that you get back from those types of questions with a very, very huge grain of salt. And the way you mostly eliminate that is by asking about past actions, right? Like don’t believe what people say, believe what they do.

And so asking them when was a time in the past that you did X or that this influenced a decision, um, is a much better source of data. Um, obviously like there can still be some fuzziness there, but in general, it’s going to be way less than if you ask people to predict their own behavior. Um, people are notoriously bad at that.

Sheldon Young
Okay. And through the magic of podcast magic here, we are, we, uh, went and pulled that data. Um, so I was curious and we had, you know, a number of people respond to this.

We kind of asked them two questions. One is, would you pay more?

Jason Moreau
Not would you?

Sheldon Young
Oh, sorry. Have you have you Jason? You just, thank you for keeping me honest for small purchases.

Can you think of examples? We said under 20 bucks, uh, will you pay more for a sustainable product? Uh, and we classified that.

And then we asked the same question for something over a thousand bucks for over a thousand dollars. Have you paid more? So we looked at the answers real quick and it’s actually pretty interesting.

I think it’s kind of three tranches. The big tranche in the middle is yes, I’ll pay more, but there has to be a decent return on investment for me as well. And there has to be value, uh, that I can ascertain from that.

It’s usually not just sustainability that’s pushing them over the edge.

Jason Moreau
No. Yeah. It’s like led light bulbs, uh, pasture raised eggs, right?

Healthier. Yeah. There’s some other benefit there.

And the sustainability is like coming along for the ride.

Sheldon Young
Yep. And then there’s the, yeah, no, I don’t really think about it. Crowd.

Um, I just kind of buy what I think is going to best suit my need. Um, and it says the right cost attached to it. And then there’s the, I will pay more because I know it’s better.

Um, and I think honestly we probably people bleed between the, they go back and forth in these groups. I think I’ll almost guarantee. I know I do.

So for example, um, uh, you know, example for me, it’s like, I buy these shoes. I won’t, I don’t give the brand. I don’t want to promote them, but they’re a definitely have a strong sustainability.

Uh, approach. It’s very much a part of who they are. The shoes are fine.

They aren’t the best shoes I’ve ever owned. Um, but I feel very good about, I know shoes can be a real thing. Like a lot, you have some pretty unsustainably made shoes.

There’s issues with child labor, all kinds of, so I’m like, okay, I feel very good about paying a little more for a decent shoe that I utilize and I feel good about it. And that’s not, I don’t get any other benefit except for knowing that it’s helping somebody else or helping the world. But then there are things like, okay, like for example, I don’t own an electric car.

I own a reasonably gas efficient car. Um, and maybe my next one might be a hybrid, but the, for me, it was all about, there was a convenience factor there. And, uh, honestly a cost level too.

So I’m like, oh, I can’t get there yet, uh, to go at full electric or anything like that. And there’s, we can argue the merits of that. I’m curious, where do you fall Jason on the spectrum?

Jason Moreau
I, yeah, I think you’re right. That depending on the purchase, you kind of float between those categories. Um, I would say if I’m being completely honest, I tend to be usually in the middle.

Right. Where I am purchasing for specific personal reasons, uh, prioritizing health or trying to be, you know, well, I guess, I guess technically, you know, making the house more energy efficient in some way. Right.

Like, I guess that that definitely is making that a priority, but as somebody mentioned in the survey result from, uh, for the, the light bulbs, uh, you’re buying because the things last five years instead of nine months. Right. And so it’s almost a convenience factor.

Like, again, if I’m being completely honest, it’s okay. They cost more now, but they last longer. So the ROI should be better, but honestly it’s, I’m generally a fairly lazy person in the sense of like, if I’m focusing on something now, I want to ensure that I don’t have to focus on this again for as long as possible.

And so if I’m buying light bulbs now, great. I buy these light bulbs. I pay a little bit more now, but then I don’t have to think about this for years.

Awesome. Right. Like I’ve cleared that I cleared the decks.

And so that kind of like, just for me, that, that tends to be how I like go about making purchases. Like I will pay a little bit more now to avoid cost or repairs in the future. Um, so sustainability in that way is I guess a factor, but I don’t, I don’t put it in that bucket in my mind.

That’s not where I’m like trying to check that box as I’m thinking through the purchase. Right.

Sheldon Young
If there was no return on investment for you, let’s say, let’s say the light bulb lasts exactly the same amount. Right. Uh, and you know, this was made with materials that are, that weren’t as harmful to the environment last the same amount.

It gives you the same utility, but costs, I don’t know, 10 or 15% more. Right. You know, does your brain need to go?

Well, that doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m just going to buy the other one. Yeah.

Okay.

Jason Moreau
Just going to buy the cheaper one.

Sheldon Young
Yeah.

Jason Moreau
Because it’s so just, yeah.

Sheldon Young
I can say you’re, that doesn’t surprise me. Basically.

Jason Moreau
So I say I’m in the middle most of the time.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I’m trying to think about it as well.

There, you know, you know, there are places where I use eggs, for example. I mean, I go cage free.

Jason Moreau
Yep.

Sheldon Young
I don’t think there’s any help. Maybe there’s a health benefit. I don’t know.

I don’t buy it. I don’t do it for that reason. You know, I don’t, I don’t think they’re better for me in any way, shape or form.

Honestly. Um, maybe they are, I mean, which is a great, if there is a benefit, but my, my wife and I were like, yeah, I kind of feel better about just getting those. We just got it.

Jason Moreau
Yeah.

Sheldon Young
So to me, that is a, a sustainable choice for me, a sustainability choice, but anyway, so enough about us moving it up to the businesses that have to make decisions. You know, I think, again, the data that I looked at and some of the reports I looked at from like McKinsey and BCG and Deloitte, something like, something like that. A lot of people care about sustainability.

That’s, that’s kind of the gist I get out of it. Like 93% of people globally see sustainability as an important part of their lives. That was what one survey told me.

But then I also see another one of these surveys saying that they only one to 7% will pay a premium in certain categories. Now, again, the survey was a couple years old, I think, but that’s not too far back. Right.

Whether it came to like groceries, you know, only a certain number will, you know, a little bit of a premium, you know, in that one to 5% range is kind of where you see a lot of it. And I get it. I mean, I get it.

So that, that to me speaks up to the people that are producing these goods. Our consumers want us to be more sustainable. They’ve said that, right.

People care about it, but they don’t want to foot the bill. That’s what I’m hearing for the most part. Right.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s, it’s one of those, um, it’s one of those weird, just sort of ironies, paradoxes, not quite sure the right word, but, you know, your opening example of the feature in your iPhone, right? Like if Apple had two different versions of their iOS and, you know, one had all of these new sustainability features, right.

Like that you mentioned, but you know, we’re going to charge you 15 cents more for it. I know they’re free, so it’s not a perfect analogy, but that’s, this is essentially what we’re confronted with when we go shopping or go into the store. There’s multiple versions of the same product, like eggs and sort of all of these different like categories or, or even, you know, um, you know, uh, package goods and food and beverages, right?

Like there’s sorts of the, the sustainability types of choices like organic and things like that, or however it is. And versus what Apple did, which is literally, you know what? If we put this in the, if we, um, create the product in this way, it is more sustainable.

It is more energy efficient. And you found it two years after they, the update came out, right? Like, so it wasn’t even a thing that they touted.

It was literally just, Hey, you know what? This is, this is good for everybody. We’re just doing it.

Right. Like, I, I think, I think most consumers hope companies take that approach at some level where it’s like, Hey man, just do it. Right?

Like you’re the one that controls the factory. Um, and I, I’m still going to buy the product, but just make the product I buy more sustainable. Like don’t make me choose between five different versions, right?

People that’s too much cognitive load for a consumer.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. I think, I think you’re, that’s an interesting point. And I think it aligns with, again, some of the other reports and data I read around this.

This was from a Deloitte study. 94% of people in that study said they think it’s the brand’s responsibility to create products that aren’t harmful. Right.

To the earth. And so that to me, it’s like, look, we’re going to trust you to do it. I mean, it’s like, it’s either, well, I guess the, I say trust is a tough word there, you know, regulate in some cases.

Yeah. Yeah. In some cases.

Right. But I think, again, that’s part of this whole dilemma. It’s, there is a lack of trust, uh, by, by, for many brands, you know, like people will look at it and say, yeah, I don’t believe that.

And some of the stuff we saw over here in the, in the survey we did, people were saying, yeah, I just don’t know if I believe them. I think it’s, you know, greenwashing or wherever the terms are these days, but I think they’re just putting the labels on and it’s not giving us an opportunity to understand what the true impact is. And so am I going to pay more for that?

I don’t know. Right. Right.

Um, so it’s, it’s an interesting paragraph. So it’s paradox. So I think the consumers making these goods have kind of a couple of challenges ahead of them.

One is, you know, how do we make investments to improve our sustainability? Because our consumers and our stakeholders want that, right? If you, they do these materiality assessments and they will, it’s very clear most of the time that they want these organizations to use less resources.

They want them to make less harm. They want all the things to happen. Right.

And so they need to kind of move the needle to, to keep face with their customers, but they also have to do it in a way that allows them to keep pricing in check, uh, to a point where, so the consumer will continue to purchase them. Uh, it’s like they’re, they’re serving a couple of different, um, things there. Like consumer has to love our product.

They have to see utility and value and they have to be able to afford it and, and see it as a, as a good value, but they also want us to be more sustainable. So that’s the dilemma that I think a lot of, a lot of, uh, organizations have to face. And, and the challenges makes it very important.

I think when they are making these investment decisions, uh, that they fully understand the cost impacts for them and the benefit impacts for them as an organization, when they make those decisions, I think, you know, you and I do this every day, uh, you know, when they’re purchasing a piece of equipment or whatnot. Okay. There’s an obvious, does it do what it needs to do?

Kind of thing. There is a, okay. How much energy does it use and how much water does he use?

Okay, great. That’s, that’s fantastic. And there’s a one little calculation, right?

But then there’s like all the downstream stuff that happens in the upstream stuff that happens and the carbon accounting that has now happened in some cases, like in Europe, you know, carbon accounting and is becoming as robust as financial accounting in many cases. So all of that comes into play now, and it’s kind of changing the, the, uh, dynamic of evaluating value of sustainability. And so I think the consumer at the end of the day has a lot more power than I think they realize.

Um, and the impact that they can make by understanding the products and the impact those products are having, uh, can have a lot of effect. Um, when you look at it all, I think so.

Jason Moreau
But I also think the, at the end of the day, you know, I think it was, uh, you know, Jeff Bezos, who with Amazon was like, you know, you know, build on sort of universal and timeless principles, right? So like people will always want things at, you know, uh, cheaper cost. They will want things faster.

They will want more convenience, right? Like just general, we’ll call them universal consumer truths. And so I think the consumer does absolutely have that.

But if all of those things are true, then I think it’s interesting because we just sort of outlined in terms of all the, like the carbon credits and, and sort of how all of that is calculated. It really does kind of move up a little bit in terms of all of those pieces of the supply chain, right? The, the company or the plant selling the steel that becomes a product that then goes into a plant, right?

Like everybody’s sort of accounting along the way, but those companies are sort of holding each part of the supply chain accountable more than the consumer, because a lot of that is behind the curtain, right? Like the consumer sees the, like the aggregate end of all of that when they buy the product. Um, but it’s the companies where some supply chains are crazy long and very intricate.

It’s, it’s that ecosystem. That’s also, I think has a really, really important part to play in, in holding all of those stakeholders accountable, um, in a way that the consumers will never understand or care to understand unless you’re in that industry, right? Because consumers don’t think about, uh, you know, heat exchangers 24, seven, unless they really, yeah, right.

Yeah. Right. I know it’s shocking.

Um, you know, they, they, it, it’s just not a, it’s not, they don’t. So I think it’s the companies that do think about those things 24, seven are the ones I think ultimately accountable for making all of that process better from a sustainability standpoint. And then hopefully at the end of that very long train, the consumer gets that benefit and we all honestly get the benefit if we’re making, you know, our plan sustainable.

Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. And I think, um, the consumer, I think cares about at the end of the day, I’ve said like four times again, I do this, Jason, I pick a phrase and I use it a lot. Um, they’re looking, they want to know, give me the cliff notes and tell me the real impact of this.

Why should I buy this? You know, you know, and they’ll recognize once in a while, if, if they see something there and if sustainability is truly on their mind and there’s a clear, believable benefit, um, to making a purchase that will help support a sustainable future, I think they will. Right.

In many cases, uh, you know, this packaging, okay, this packaging here, it’s, it works well. It’s great. Oh, it uses 25% less packaging than, than say, uh, traditional packaging would use.

Okay. Some people will care about that. Um, I think as long as it doesn’t cost them too much more, right.

They will make that choice. Um, I don’t know. We’ll see.

I think again, it’s like, it’s always like that. You never know until like you say what they end up doing, uh, that kind of drives the point home. I’ll ask you a question.

I want to jump off a different topic a little bit. Do you feel that there are companies. Whether now or in the past or whatever that are truly with the altruistic in that regard, they’ll drive for sustainability, even if their customers don’t explicitly say they care.

Jason Moreau
Exceedingly rare. I think you’re probably right.

Sheldon Young
Any examples that come to mind for you?

Jason Moreau
Um, yeah, I mean, I, I would say, um, yeah. Who’s the guy who, uh, like he retired, but he put his, uh, the company into like a public trust or something. Is that, is that Patagonia or REI?

Sheldon Young
Patagonia is one of the ones I had on my list.

Jason Moreau
Um, they, again, there was like a whole new, like governance structure that he created to ensure that the company moving forward, right. Like after he stepped down or after he passed away, could not violate these ideals. Like that is how core it was to everything.

And I, didn’t they famously take out an ad, like I’m going to say decades ago at this point, it was a Christmas ad. And the ad was like, don’t buy this jacket. Like, and it was a picture of their jacket.

Right. So like it has, like, I don’t think that company exists without that level. Like it’s, it’s like, it is exception.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. At the end of the day, Patagonia made great products. Number one, they did.

They did at second end of the day, uh, they did it and they did it responsibly. They use, they were the pioneered, the use of like recycled materials. They actually repaired clothes for you.

They encouraged you, like you were saying by judiciously, don’t buy everything. You know, three times, you know, spend your money, you know, don’t spend money on our stuff if it can be fixed and things like that. Right.

So they were very good at that. I mean, you could argue Ben and Jerry’s, right. They were the social advocacy and, and the, um, responsibility of the fair trade with their farmers way ahead of their time, way ahead of their time on that.

Right. So again, I think those examples show that it is possible, I think, to take. Um, responsible stances, uh, and, and do things that provide for a sustainable future and also succeed, right.

And also pave a way for others to follow suit. Should they, should they choose to, and honestly, I, I feel they built a much stronger customer base because of it. Cause again, they, they also started to, to promote that a little bit in a way, at least be transparent about it.

And that’s an important word, transparency, being able to see the, the impact of that and see the real, again, lifting that curtain. It just said everything’s happens behind a curtain. They lifted the curtain a lot.

And I think that really helped out. Um, it did.

Jason Moreau
It showed that you could, you could kind of have that triple bottom line that we talk about, right. The profits, people, planet type of thing. Um, so yeah, definitely pioneers in that respect.

I do. There’s an interesting sort of like thought experiment here for me though, as a marketing person, which is, and as you say, the products are good. Um, you know, but I mean, if I didn’t like any of the Ben and Jerry flavors, I wouldn’t buy them just because they were pioneers in this respect, right?

Like the ice cream needed to taste good. But I do think a lot of these companies, um, don’t take the Apple approach, uh, at least again with the charging thing where it, it is a differentiator. You know, you’re the example of your shoes, right?

Like all, all things being equal, they’ve, they’ve seen that as a way to stand out in a crowded market to that audience who does care. Uh, and we’ll prioritize that. And so it is, and I’m not, I’m not throwing it, it is as much a kind of business positioning exercise as it is sort of, um, an ethical consideration for these companies, I think.

But the, but the thought experiment is, so if all companies were that sustainable and ethical, what would you talk about? Right? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, so it is this weird, right? Like it’s kind of where we are in our transition period of our, you know, like, yeah.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. I think it’s, we are certainly again, the, the, the bar continues to move, right?

Jason Moreau
Now it’s a good point. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
You know, the bar, you know, 25 years ago of what sustainability meant is it was like, wow, this is one or two kooky companies over here doing some stuff, but everyone else is just producing. Now it becomes again, consumer sentiment, consumers became more aware. Consumers start to say, Hey, uh, we don’t really like that.

You’re doing this thing. Customer ABC, maybe you should change that or I’m going to buy something else. Right.

And then someone else fills a hole in that market and provides an alternative to your point. There is a value proposition that gets made. And I think while sustainability may not be always at the top and purchase purchase decisions, uh, you know, are driven with sustainability as a factor, not necessarily the leading cause for many people, it is a factor.

And I think all things equal, they look at that and, and, and do weigh it. Um, that would be my, that would be my hypothesis on it.

Jason Moreau
Um, my only, my only ad there is I think a lot of purchases are contextual, uh, in the sense of, you know, if I had been wandering in the wilderness for three days and I finally found my way out of the woods and stumbled upon a convenience store, I’m grabbing the first bottle of water that I saw. And I would not read the label to care if it was like sustainably sourced, you know? And so, yeah, yeah.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. I think a very good point. I think it’s a part of this is it’s like, you know, are you thinking about it in the, in the purchase moment now?

For sure. I think it’s a, it’s a good point. Um, all right, let’s do a wrap up real quick.

A couple things. Uh, again, this podcast is about making sustainability real. So I took two angles here.

There’s a, I think there’s a, uh, a business angle. Uh, so as a business in the safe food beverage farm, which is the world we play, but almost any business. So we’ll kind of say, say it that way.

How do you make sustainability real with your consumer? One, one, you know, your impact and take measures to kind of lower it if you can. Right.

Transparency and transparency and traceability. I think are kind of key. How do you tell a believable sustainability story that they can actually see what’s happening?

Uh, you know, lifting that curtain, as you said earlier, right?

Jason Moreau
Bring receipts. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Bring receipts. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Look for the wins, uh, that also don’t drive up your prices as much. I mean, I think again, ROI matters on these things. You have to understand the true return of your investment, uh, and understand.

It’s a business decision at the end of the day. I said it again, but it is one that you can actually evaluate and make a good decision that can benefit give you the yes. And approach.

Uh, and then, uh, I kind of popped on, you know, thinking of you as a marketer, Jason, keep the story simple, truthful, and relevant to the consumer. Consumers are savvy. They will figure it out.

If you try to pull the wool over their eyes.

Jason Moreau
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
And then from a consumer perspective, you know, I think it’s, you can make an impact. I think we all have more power than we realize. Uh, you look for trusted certifications with a tiny bit of research, you know, food and beverage, for example, USDA, organic USDA, organic, fair trade, rainforest Alliance, non GMO project, things like that.

Those are all certified, legitimate things. Uh, and pharmaceuticals, the cradle cradle certified B Corp, or like a, that’s a company level sustainability approach. Packaging F S C for its stewardship council.

That’s again, a responsible packaging thing. How to recycle is another one. EU eco label is another one that’s out there.

Look beyond the label and the buzzwords. Look at your ingredients and the transparent sourcing information. Where is this stuff coming from?

Right. And ideally, um, look for it. If there’s transparency around carbon footprints, take it into consideration.

I know, as you said, Jason, in the moment, uh, it’s not always front of mind, but if you want to make an impact, know where that stuff happens and try to do it by local. That’s another great way to do it. Right.

It’s a great way. Yeah. A lot of stuff gets transported all over the country.

It’s a lot of energy, a lot of greenhouse gas emissions that happen. A lot of, uh, you know, uh, other things that are an impact there by from a local source. If you can, as long as you know, they’re doing things responsibly too.

Right. I don’t want to buy from irresponsible local source. And then again, just research.

Uh, you know, uh, a lot of companies will have, uh, you know, if they’re a larger company, they’ll have like sustainability programs and they’ll report out on their goals. Like those SBTI, uh, targets and things like that, that are real things that their people are going after and they’re measuring themselves against. So as a consumer, you have more information available to you than you think you have more power than you think.

And just like, you know, my iPhone charging itself on, on green energy, you have more impact in volume than we think. Right.

Jason Moreau
Yeah.

Sheldon Young
At the end of the day.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. And I would say as a consumer, uh, support or reward the companies who are making that good faith effort and they’re bringing the receipts, like don’t expect perfection, like support the companies on their journey and show them that like, Hey, yeah, you’re maybe only on mile 12 of the marathon, but like, we’re cheering you on, keep going. So, yeah.

Yeah. Excellent stuff.

Sheldon Young
All right. Well, we thank you again for joining us for this episode of no footprints. Uh, we’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas and we have great guest ideas.

Send them our way. Uh, we want people that are making sustainability real. That’s what we’re all about.

So you can reach out, you can reach us at a nofootprints.podcast@alfalaval.com. Alfa Laval is spelled A L F A L A V A L.com. And with that, Jason, I bid you very well.

My friend. Talk to you later. Our guests come from many industries and companies, as we’re talking about how the world makes sustainability real.

Our company Alfa Laval is a global supplier of process solutions. So it’s very possible that the organizations our guests are with may use Alfa Laval or even our competitors’ products. This does not mean that we, the hosts or Alfa Laval are endorsing any of the company’s guests or the specific ideas that we discuss.