2026 Sustainability Predictions

Transcript

[Sheldon Young]
I’m Sheldon Young.

[Jason Moreau]
And I am Jason Moreau.

[Sheldon Young]
And we’re here to talk about impact and to share the efforts and people behind making sustainability real. Second episode in 2026, Jason. I see a trend forming. I see a trend forming.

[Jason Moreau]
The next one’s the third episode in 2026.

[Sheldon Young]
Whoa, slow down. That’s 50% more than the last two. Oh, I know.

Sorry. Sorry, folks. A little punchy today.

It’s the end of the day. It’s the weekend of a week. It’s Friday we’re recording this and Jason and I just are doing the thing that we do so well and get together and talk and hopefully a few of you listen and talk to us about sustainability, right?

Exactly. It’s all a good fun thing. Yeah.

So Jason, let’s kick these things rolling here. Tell me, what’s your story to kick us off?

[Jason Moreau]
So my story is, well, it started at one place and then I went down a rabbit hole as I do. No, I will. I will TLDR it.

So I like that. So I came across an article about Heineken announcing that it plans to power one of its European breweries with renewable energy. Interesting.

Yes. But the way that they’re doing it is by installing a heat battery.

[Sheldon Young]
Okay. Yes.

[Jason Moreau]
So I went down the rabbit trail of what a heat battery is. And so essentially, when you have green energy sources, wind, solar, they’re great. They’re inexpensive.

They’re awesome. The problem is they’re intermittent, right? So the sun’s only out when the sun’s out.

The wind only blows when the wind blows.

[Sheldon Young]
So how do you normally store a battery, right? A typical battery.

[Jason Moreau]
Yes. A typical battery. So what this does is instead of storing it in a lithium ion battery and storing it as like what chemical energy or chemical potential, it’s storing it as heat.

So essentially these batteries are made of brick, graphite, just huge blocks of it. And these batteries get super hot, like 2000 to 3000 degrees Fahrenheit. So it can store that energy and insulated for days, weeks, right?

And so it’s a really, really interesting technology, especially for manufacturing because a lot of the energy in manufacturing is specifically around heat, right? Generating steam, right? Like cooling things, heating things, trying to capture as much of that as possible and not letting it go to waste.

The other interesting thing about these batteries is that they are very inexpensive from a material standpoint, right? It’s literally bricks or graphite compared to lithium.

[Sheldon Young]
And it’s not a rare element, right?

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah, correct. And they don’t wear out, right? Lithium batteries, everybody knows who has a cell phone or a computer.

Eventually those batteries with enough charge cycles don’t carry the same capacity anymore. This is that it will run forever, right? The materials doesn’t wear out.

And I came across a wild statement, which is a pound of brick stores more energy than a pound of lithium ion battery at less than 10% of the cost.

[Sheldon Young]
Huh. That’s interesting. There’s got to be more to this thing.

I will go down this rabbit hole with, you know, it’s like you’re saying you got to get it to 2000 degrees. How do you get it to 2000 degrees? I’m thinking of, I’m a heat transfer guy.

My brain works with heat transfer. How does that work? And so I want to go research this now.

You’ve got me intrigued, my friend. I’m excited to learn.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. It’s a, it’s really, really cool stuff. And I mean, especially, yeah, given, given where you and I play and the types of customers and the conversations, it’s a, it’s really, really interesting.

So, yep, that’s fun stuff.

[Sheldon Young]
I like it. Yeah, that’s a cool story. I mean, I’m sure people, hopefully people will go check this out and learn a little bit and hopefully lots of heat exchanges.

That’s what we do. Good stuff. Yeah.

So my article, yeah. So my article was around an article in the Financial Times on the reinvention of the chief sustainability officer. I saw someone post about this and I saw some commentary from that.

I’m like, well, that’s interesting. I went and read it. I’m like, yeah, I mean, this isn’t, it wasn’t a big surprise to me, but I liked their analysis around this, where the role has shifted and evolved.

And we were talking about, so this episode, we’re going to be talking about some, what we, you know, predicting the future, I guess, for lack of a better term, around 2026 sustainability trends. What do we think those trends are going to be? You know, and this is, you know, doing lots, doing some research on it and finding what people are saying and then kind of consolidating a few, but this will kind of tie to that a little bit.

One of the things we talk about essentially saying that the role goes from strategic storyteller that, you know, that kind of, that focuses a lot on, on audit ready data to something that’s a more integral to the, to the core business functions.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. So like where it’s not just a reporting anymore, it’s like, okay, how are you delivering value as well? And this ties that we’ve talked about this a lot, right?

Sustainability, productivity, profitability, right? You can’t put, you can’t pull apart anymore, right? Cause there needs to be in many cases.

And again, this is, of course you can do things for the sake of doing good and it happens, but a lot of people running businesses, they, they just aren’t working that way. And so as someone that drives sustainability, it’s like, how do you connect it to business value? Cause you can have both.

And that’s, that’s the easy win stuff. I mean, if you can justify it, put dollars behind it, it becomes a much easier win for folks. And so, you know, what we’re seeing out in the market in some places is you’re seeing a lot of these sustainability roles sometimes get merged into other business functions, right?

It’s, it’s been kind of a thing and it’s, you know, it’s harder to kind of, if you’re just a pure sustainability person, like how do you, how do you work yourself? How do you build the skillsets that kind of lets you kind of play across different, different parts of the business while keeping that sustainability drive with you, right? And I’ve seen it in some of the roles and stuff.

When you look at it, it’s in like new college grads and some of the degree programs out there, they’re often very integral tied to like a business function, right? While it’s like sustainability marketing or whether it’s sustainability engineering or whether it’s whatever it is, it’s, you know, I think you’re seeing less and less of the, I’m a sustainability person. It’s like, I’m a business person or I’m a account or finance and accounting person with sustainability skillsets.

And I bring that into my, you know, my abilities when you hire me and it becomes part of, I love it because it’s becomes more integral to the business. The concern of course, is that if they get absorbed by other parts of the business, do they become less relevant and less impactful? And does the quote business part just completely absorb it and take over and you don’t, and it’s not a priority anymore, right?

That’s the risk in my opinion. I don’t know. What do you think?

[Jason Moreau]
It’s interesting. I think it sounds like there were some, some things discussed in the article that were some of the threads that were presented when we talked to Alison Taylor, for example, right?

[Sheldon Young]
Absolutely.

[Jason Moreau]
There’s sort of all of these pieces and parts that are part of affecting sustainability, but they were owned by different pieces and parts of an organization. And I think it’s so positive because you don’t typically improve things without first assessing what’s working and what’s not working. So it sounds like this article is just sort of pointing out.

There’s this like self-reflection or reassessment of how can sustainability, how can the people responsible for sustainability in an organization, especially at the top, like a CSO show up in a way where all of those threads are pulled together in a more cohesive, meaningful way. And the business is seeing much more, we’ll call it like integrated value, right? Like it’s, it’s maybe not just a destination, but it’s a, it’s a, it’s a way of being, it’s a way of assessing things.

I think it’s positive.

[Sheldon Young]
I think it has strong potential to be positive.

[Jason Moreau]
Okay.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. No, I think it’s like, you know, done right. Yes.

It makes perfect sense because honestly that this is the sustainability role becomes integrally valuable to the business. My, if, if to me being done wrong, I’ll put, I’m putting air quotes around that means you completely eliminate the autonomy of sustainability and just have it blended in under something completely different, right? Right.

Because they’re always going to default to the primary function. Yeah. In my opinion, in my opinion, I do feel you have to keep some segregation in terms of ownership, but hold accountable people, the chief sustainability person for the aspects of finance and marketing and all that.

It has to be tightly woven so that it adds value to those stories as well. Right. And to those functions as well.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
So again, what, what the article had said around what you’re starting to see more of is, you know, people in that sustainability, chief sustainability officer role with a lot of legal or risk risk type of skill sets, because that makes sense. I mean, because it becomes particularly if you’re a European company or something like that, where the regulations are stronger around sustainability, you know, that becomes part of what you have to think about the legal aspect of stuff and the risk aspect of stuff. So it makes sense.

At the very least, I think people that run those sustainability organizations have to have a tight, tight tie with the legal and, and risk-related functions so that they can seamlessly work arm and arm together.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. I think that’s the tension. That’s the balance.

And my guess would be different organizations figure out where that balance point is differently based on their current state and then where they’re trying to drive to, right. In terms of organizational or transformational change. It’ll be interesting to watch.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, it will. It will for sure. I think, putting it like anything else, every role, as it becomes more mature, you start to realize that there’s a skill sets that are really needed.

Right. And, and it’s like, it’s like anything, it’s not, it’s not a shocker. It’s just a, it’s just a fun to watch how it’s evolving.

Cool. All right. So today we’re going to talk about kind of five sustainability trends and I picked ones that are kind of in that pharma, food, beverage, dairy space.

It’s kind of where I honed it into. Again, I think they’re applicable to most industries, but when I did research these a little bit, I was, I did have that as my frame of contact. That’s the world we largely play in, you and I.

Now again, anyone can listen to this and get value from it. I think it’s, they’re all relevant. I mean, as, as I read them, most of these are pretty relevant.

If you’re in making anything basically, so it should largely work. Before that though, one more, one more selfless plug, Jason, January 28th. FPSA, FPSA is, is having me as a guest on to do a fireside chat.

We’ve got a couple of great folks here talking about identifying and building strong understanding of your sustainability goals and how do you build a plan to improve that, right? Sustainability, productivity, profitability. You hear me talk about it all the time on this podcast.

It’s kind of core to what we’ll be chatting about. And I’m excited to have this chat with the guests to learn how they drive that in their organizations and help others along that way to build their own journey. So it should be fun.

Looking forward to it. I will be there. Right.

I’m not, don’t worry. I’m not I’m not going to go do these full time, Jason. So you’re not going to lose me for the podcast in case you were worried.

You read my mind.

[Jason Moreau]
I read your mind.

[Sheldon Young]
I’m on contract here. We need to renegotiate.

[Jason Moreau]
Only red M&Ms in your rider. You have the weirdest things in your rider, Sheldon.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s right. I only want brown M&Ms. All right. Let’s, let’s just jump right in.

I picked out five for us to chat about. Let’s just jump right into one. One, hyper local sourcing and transparent supply chain.

So this is kind of around the fact that brands are starting to like look more regionally for their supply of whatever it is, product, whether it’s, you know, it’s not a super surprising trend, but probably one that could have some complexity to it.

[Jason Moreau]
A hundred percent. Yeah. Not surprising.

Well, a reversal of a decades old trend of like, where I think for a lot of large companies, it was like streamlining to the nth degree and optimizing where that might mean a factory is way over here and there’s our customers are way over here. And I think one going through the pandemic and then to write like current tariff related issues, right? Like those supply chains are being flexed in ways that were maybe unanticipated.

And so what you see is that if you have some resiliency with, you know, we have some of our sourcing here locally, maybe you still have some of those other chains, right? Like it could be hybrid, right? Like, I don’t think the pendulum is going to swing all the way back, but I do think that there’s a lot of upside to sort of having things where it’s not hyper-efficient, but it’s more resilient and you have more optionality.

And then the, the, the sort of sidecar benefit is, well, if it’s not a super long supply chain, well, it’s better from a sustainability standpoint in terms of greenhouse gases and everything else. So, um, I, I see this as a really strong trend that I would, I think that’s going to continue 26 and beyond.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. I think, I think you’re, you’re, you’re correcting your assessment. I think one of the, some of the things that also drive it are if you have a local and resilient supply chain, having it be local, you can really understand the value chain much easier, right?

When you’re looking at things like emissions and you’re looking at trying to lower emissions, you know, scope three are usually the biggest part of emissions. So the, what’s happening if you’re someone that uses a farm product, what’s happening on that farm in terms of the resources and emissions created from producing that farm good, that’s largely going to be the big part of your emissions. Yeah.

So if you have locality to that and transparency, you can work closely with, with those resources and say, look, I want you to be more, uh, efficient and to use less resources and create less emissions. Let’s work together right here, arm and arm to make this happen. Now I’m saying that like, it’s an easy thing to do.

It’s not always easy, but having a more local transparent supply chain allows that to be a much more undertakable cat task, I guess. Right. Um, and by removing the complexity of, of getting things to you, uh, you know, you, you have a lot more, I guess, influence in it a lot, a lot more leverage in terms of that conversation.

I don’t mean that in the financial way. I mean that in the working together for a better future way.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. I mean, I, I think this is just how we’re wired as people, right? Like we can obviously care and be aware of, uh, global issues, but I think, you know, we’re still wired to sort of most prioritize or most easily see the things that are like closest to us and not just closest in terms of what we prioritize, but like literally physically close to us.

Right. Like we all kind of in the order of importance care more about the stuff happening in our town where we live than the towns that are 3000 miles away. Right.

Like it, cause it selfishly, it impacts us more. So I, I just think that there’s that, that natural sort of inclination to cooperate more. Um, so that’s the easier bit, I think like, it’s not a hard, it’s not a hard sell.

The implementation is the, is the hard part, but the like, Hey, we should work together on this. We’re right here. Right?

Like I think that’s easy.

[Sheldon Young]
You also, I think again, again, this is double-edged sword. You, you do add some potential of risk and, and scale benefits, uh, you know, by not open sourcing it basically anywhere and driving down prices, you are putting yourself at a cost risk potentially, potentially not always, but potentially if you’re not having a larger market, uh, uh, you know, to, to, to draw your resources from, you may find yourself in a, in a, uh, uh, unfavorable market position.

So that’s just one of the downsides. But I think, you know, I think I love the concept. I think they should do more of it.

If they can do it in a way that keeps continues to drive business value. I think it’s a winner. Okay.

Number two, the rise of energy positive factories. This is interesting. Uh, I’ve seen some of this, uh, essentially what I mean by this as a facilities that generate more energy than they use.

Okay.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Uh, now again, is it possible all the time? No, but if you, if they have solar and wind potential geothermal, they making a biomass or something that could be digested to make bio, uh, you know, biogas is, um, very possibly could, um, take that an energy and you now have a positive output, right? I love it.

I think it’s a really great trend. I think again, it comes with a need for investment. Yes.

That’s going to be the tricky part is the ROI going to be there for them. Right. I think as they start, if we continue to see more pressure on things like gas prices and natural gas prices, again, you never know what you’re going to see, electricity scarcity, other ways, shapes, and forms the lowering of cost of some of the things like wind and solar power.

Right. Um, all of these things are going to, are going to start making this a more feasible business case. Right.

Uh, again, what regulations are you going to start to see? Right. Do you start to get incentivized for being energy positive?

Right. Would be an interesting, great thing. I, in my opinion, I guess I’m giving you an opinion on that one.

Um, yeah. And you certainly see even things like more efficient digestion in some of the enzymes and the, and the things you use to digest can create more, more gas and all kinds of different levers and factors there. Right.

Um, why wouldn’t we want to see this as a, as a, as a bigger trend, you also starting to see technology that kind of helps operate your factories and stuff more efficiently.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
That whole, yeah. The whole internet of things. Right.

I’ll let you talk on this. What thoughts do you have around these?

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. To me, this seems like, um, this also seems like a no brainer, but very much reliant on, um, incentives or some type of something to start that flywheel spinning. Uh, and obviously, well, I won’t say obviously, but at least here, uh, where we live, I know there was a program where if you had solar panels, you could work with our local energy company and they would install a special meter.

And if you were producing more electricity than you were consuming for your house, your residents, it pushed it back to the grid, right? Like you were selling it back to the electric company, which is good for me personally. It, it helps Jayco Jayco Jayco electricity.

Yep. I will show you the logo I whipped up. It’s pretty sweet.

The right. But like, and it’s, uh, to me, it’s, um, it’s an effective use of infrastructure that we already have. And it’s sort of just putting it in.

It’s putting, it’s structuring it in a way where it’s win-win for everybody. Like we already have this electrical grid. Great.

If it’s a simple tweak and I can contribute to that versus constantly pulling from that’s amazing. And if you hit a tipping point, it’s like, Oh, all of a sudden we don’t have to build a new power plant. You have enough consumed residences pushing to the grid.

It’s like, Oh, we took care of that. Right. Like, so I, and then, I mean, given the power consumptions of a lot of, um, industry, I could only imagine that that’s a multiple of what you would see from a consumer effect, uh, with a resident.

So yeah, no, I really like this idea. And I, and I like that it incentivizes people in a different way to invest in that technology at the, at the plant level. Right.

Like it could be this other, like, you know what, like we could sell the right. Like it’s a way to defray the cost to calculate ROI. Like it’s just, it’s another stream of that, I guess, in terms of like thinking about it.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, absolutely. If, if, if a facility is able to essentially eliminate their, you know, energy cost, um, that’s huge. I mean, it makes you more competitive, right?

I mean, again, it’s, it’s all, I understand everyone understands this when you sit down, it is looking at what does that return on investment look like? And as that technology keeps advancing, I started to mention like the internet of things, like you can like set things, set it up now. So your plant is smart enough to know, Hey, you don’t need these motors running as hard as they run.

I’m going to turn them down for you right now. And I’m going to run. Uh, I was, when I was talking to someone today about, um, uh, they used to work at a place that they’d shut the lights out every day, but they’d leave these really huge vacuum pumps running in the ceilings that pull vacuum on the machines.

They wasn’t running all weekend. No one was there.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
And I’m like, it’s like something like the internet, you know, a smart data-driven system could say, Hey, you don’t operate in the weekends. I’m shutting off all non-critical systems. Right.

I’m doing that for you. Right. And it optimizes for you.

So you don’t have to think and do it yourself. Right. Stuff like that, like minimizing and, you know, cycling the boiler appropriately in your facility.

So steam is only generated when you need it and having that different kind of, uh, biogas to run a steam boiler, as opposed to using natural gas, all these things are possible now. Uh, and I guess they take investment. So I’m not going to say we should just flip a switch.

You have to make a smart business decision, but if you step back and start to look at these options, you can start to build a roadmap that turns you into an energy positive plan and more and more facilities are starting to do it.

[Jason Moreau]
So when I think it’s, I mean, I’ve not looked at the numbers, but I, yeah, I would guess that the cost to become energy positive is only a little bit more than the cost to become energy neutral. Right. Like if you’re making that investment to, to then go, well, we’re, we’re neutral.

We’re net zero, you know, like everything’s fine, but it’s like, Oh, but if it’s an, if it’s an extra little bit, we’re net positive. And then that helps us pay back quicker. We’re right.

Like, like, I think that’s, it’s weird that it’s like being net, the neutral is a huge accomplishment. So it feels weird to move the goalpost and be like, well, you should be energy positive. But I think that actually weirdly from a psychological and maybe even a business standpoint works better.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest challenge for all of these, many of these technologies is that like you have legacy, right?

You have stuff that’s there and it works, right? It doesn’t like it’s broken. If you’re saying I need to tear out this piece of equipment and put something else new in, that becomes a whole different, you know, schema of thinking.

So that is, it was, it’s a, it’s a chicken egg thing. Right. And so as we start, the key is, as you start to think about, Hey, we have these changes that need to happen, whether an old boiler, whether it’s, you know, another type of energy system or upgrades in, in, in the control systems, whatever they are, how do you incorporate newer technology that allows some of these things to become real?

Right. That’s the big thing. All right.

Next one I had, we talked about this topic a lot, but actually, you know, this is a little tweak on it. Authentic plant-based and functional foods. And what’s meant by that?

This is basically, you know, we have the plant-based trend evolving from plant-based meats and things like that, to more like plant forward foods, right. Functional foods that don’t quite hide the plant. And I guess, you know, but just letting it kind of shine on its own without trying to imitate something else, I guess is where it’s going.

Yeah. So starting to see some foods like that but with also ones that have kind of intent behind them, whether it’s supporting gut health and immunity or emotional wellness foods that are plant-based that support these very specific functional things are starting to have a trend, right? You know, while, while I feel emotionally healthier eating a burger, I love eating a burger.

It helps my emotional health. I think there are actual studies around certain plant-based, plant-based foods that can drive that for you as well. And in a real sense, not just my sense that I want to have for me, my burger, but you know, it’s, so you start to see that trend be more.

And I think that could be really interesting way for the, I want to say the, the plant-based or even fermentation-based stuff. If there’s benefit there, that sets them out as unique, not trying to be something else, which is still going to be important. I think I’m not, you know, arguing with that one at all, but this is a different market now.

It’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a sustainability driven market that, you know, could change some of the eating habits and change some of the things that we, we consume pro I mean, I, you see probiotic sodas and stuff out there.

[Jason Moreau]
That’s what I was just thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. I wouldn’t have, I wouldn’t have thought that that would have grown at the rate it has. So I, I think that’s a, that’s a great bellwether and call out.

Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah, absolutely. I think we just going to continue to see more and more of those things. And so my take on it was, well, I mean, I’d written a couple of notes here from the terms of like the, when we’ve talked to those other episodes, I’m not going to harp on it from the plant.

If you’re saying, I’m trying to replace direct proteins, like the, you know, I’m trying to replace this meat again, that comes with certain challenges. That’s a harder road in my opinion, harder roads to handle. It’s going to happen.

It’s slower. It’s more challenging. It’s going to take more innovation, but I’m all for finding, you know, kind of ways that make food shine and innovative ways to change the way we eat introducing things that kind of bring benefits that maybe we weren’t aware of before.

Uh, I’m excited about that. I think that’s an interesting food trend that could really, uh, really help improve sustainability because you’re eating more plants. Right.

Um, and probably improve my health as well from eating more plants. So I’m going to go with both of those things.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. I, I’m kind of bullish on this one. I can get behind this one and see this as, as a really growing trend, especially because I feel like it has a lot to do with framing in the sense that, you know, if you’re framing something as, look, this is a plant-based or alternative and it tastes just like a regular beef patty hamburger, you won’t even know the difference in a blind taste test.

Well, you framed that expectation in that person’s mind very differently than if you were to say something like, you know, this is a plant-based XYZ product. Um, it, it helps, um, uh, with your gut health, which studies have shown, you know, improve, like, you know, aging well, blah, blah, blah, like whatever the studies show. Right.

And I, I think people then are putting it in their, a different category in their mind and are willing to give up some of the like, well, it doesn’t taste like this. Well, no, it’s not designed to, it’s its own thing. And the benefit is this.

Right. And so I think people just evaluate it differently. And I do think those health trends are huge in here to stay.

Right. You just see things like intermittent fasting. And like, I think a lot of people are much more aware of the concept of like food as medicine and a thing to keep you healthy.

So I, yeah, very bullish on this trend for sure.

[Sheldon Young]
Excellent. Excellent. Uh, all right.

Number four, I’ll get two more cruising along Jason cruising, cruising water stewardship and resource manager. Okay. So this is a pretty generic, generic one, uh, from that regard.

But I think if we, if we try to put a finer point on it, your water has traditionally, unless you’re in a water scarce area, not been as important. I’m just going to say it, at least in the U S I’m speaking a little U S centric, um, more so you’ll see it in some other parts of the world. And if you’re in a water area, of course it’s important, et cetera, et cetera.

But I think this trend has legs, uh, because water isn’t getting cheaper. It’s, it’s not, it’s, we are seeing a higher demand. I keep seeing this by 2030, the demand on water globally is going to be 40% short of what we can supply.

[Jason Moreau]
Oh, wow.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah.

[Jason Moreau]
That’s not a small number.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s not a small number. Now again, who makes that number? I mean, look, the resources I read about it, it seems relatively it’s they’re on the right track.

They’re on the right trend. They’re not just pulling that out of a hat. They’re, they’re looking at trends.

They’re looking at resource usage. You’re looking at population growth and there’s a scarcity that’s on the way and some places are ready or feeling it. Right.

So we have to start thinking about not just the sources of our fresh water, but on the water we use, how do we find a way to make it last? How do we find a way to bring it back into the positive side of the water and not just down, uh, some wastewater? Well, right.

Yeah. That is going to be critically important, particularly in a big user of, of resources is the food beverage farming industry. All they use a lot of water and is like, even things like data centers of my gosh, the water that they use.

Right.

[Jason Moreau]
Right. Which you normally think of that as a huge, like as a consumption type of issue for that.

[Sheldon Young]
Exactly. So, but what you are going to see, uh, are starting to see more and more, uh, I guess steps towards water stewardship around, uh, companies are investing in number one, water saving technology. So how do you, how do you stop this?

Well, first of all, use less, right? So find ways to use less products. I mean, we, we work with this every day, Jason, you know, like in, in, in the food beverage space and all that around.

My goal is to have them use less water to begin with. That’s step one. But then with the wastewater that is created in these processes, how do you find ways to recover it and reuse it?

And by minimizing, uh, the contamination that’s in it, removing it, taking that water and putting it back to another use, whether it’s an irrigation, whether it’s like cleaning or cooling towers or something else where it can, it can find another life and be rejuvenated multiple times sometimes. Right. So that you, so just completely lower the draw you have on the resources that you’re pulling in.

Um, I think that’s a yes, yes, yes. For me, I’m on my take. It’s long overdue.

Um, wastewater in general has been neglected for a really long time. Uh, at least at industrial perspectives. I mean, yes, they, they’ve had it, but you go to some wastewater plants, they’re, they’re strange.

They’re, they’re missing, you know, they aren’t up to date. They aren’t doing the best job in the world. In some cases, again, I’m not paying a broad brush.

I’m just, I see enough of it that it’s like, yeah, many facilities I talked to, a challenge they have is wastewater. Um, and so how do you deal with it? Um, yeah.

And again, whether it’s regulation driven or just good business driven, I think both are going to be the case. Eventually, um, resources are just more stringent and see how do you, how do you draw it in and do it? Well, you start looking at ways to smart ways to, to recuperate and reuse.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. I feel like this one, I agree with you. I think there’s more work to do on the education side for consumers, because this is a, this is sort of a business cost externality, even that like consumers just don’t even think of, or have an awareness of, um, obviously you have an awareness of wastewater.

If your local municipality, uh, experiences some issues, then it’s critically important when you’re not getting fresh water from the sink or you’re not able to flush your toilet, right? Like then it’s like priority number one. Um, but I think it’s going to take some, uh, education to get, you know, call it the average person on the street.

If you were to stop a hundred people and ask them, Hey, have you heard the term carbon footprint? What does that mean? Describe it.

I think they have a general awareness and could get kind of close to like what that is and what that concept is. I don’t think there’s an analogous like water footprint one for the, for the general populate, uh, population. And, and I think getting them to sort of that like base level of understanding, I think then, you know, I think that’ll be interesting and probably accelerate the trend a bit.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. I think what’s happening though, is you’re starting to see it. No, the cost, your infrastructure in the US is traditionally is getting old, right?

Yeah. And a lot of these facility, a lot of facilities in general, uh, their effluent and stuff goes to a wastewater treatment plant sometimes. Right.

And so they’re getting those wastewater treatment plants are getting taxed, not, not, you know, not from a financial point of view, but stressed. And so they’re pushing back and they’re, and they’re demanding more and costs are going up because he had the, yeah, people have to upgrade. And so it is going to manifest itself in the business, right?

It’s no longer a cheap problem to ignore. Uh, and so the trend is, you know, maybe it’s driven by some finances, but I think it’s also when you start again, before we get to water scarcity issues, hopefully we’ll start seeing this trend continue. It’s it’s strength, right?

Yes. Um, and, uh, so that the, the cost of, of the water that we use is, uh, is low because the water we use is less correct. Right.

That is what I hope we continue to see. So my, my hopes, my fingers are crossed that this trend is very, very real and continues to be very, very relevant for many, many years to come. It needs to be the way we do things, right.

Thinking about water circularity and stewardship. Cool. All right, Jason, we got one more.

Let’s, let’s get this one out. This is a good one. It’s a good one.

It’s good when it’s very important to, in your world. All right. I called this one sustainability.

Real talk becomes the norm. And, um, you mentioned an example. Maybe I think, I think it was in an episode.

Maybe it wasn’t, maybe it was just us talking, but you mentioned the most recent, uh, Patagonia report. What, what did you see when you read that?

[Jason Moreau]
You know, I, I thought it was really interesting. Obviously Patagonia sort of held up as just this, like, and rightly so shining example of corporate stewardship, sustainability, you know, famously sort of like, you know, gave the company away to the earth, right? Like the earth is our shareholder kind of thing.

Um, and in their latest progress report for 2025, I mean, there was some pretty stark statements. Uh, you know, this is one, you know, quoting what is clear is that for all the work we’ve done on our products and in our supply chain and all the money we’ve given away to environmental nonprofits, it’s still not enough.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah.

[Jason Moreau]
Right. Uh, and then I think there was another one here. Patagonia is a paradox.

Our charter mandates, we follow social and environmentally responsible practices. Yet every product we make takes irreplaceable resources from the planet. Now, well, so it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s acknowledging, I think just this, this tension of how hard it is to do this work in, um, well, one, if, if you’re the only one pulling, right?

Like without a lot of allies and support, um, which they go on to say, like, it’s not all gloom and doom, but to your point, it is very real talk about, Hey, here’s where we are. We’ve maybe done more than any other single company you could argue. Um, and we’re, and they’re going like, we’re going to fall short.

Right. Like, and we don’t, and just, I don’t think there’s ever going to not be this tension, right. When you are taking resources, producing a product, um, even with all right.

Like, so it’s just, I, I think it’s a bit of a reality check, which is, I think good. Um, again, they go in, into the progress report saying like, you know, but they’re still positive. Like, we’re not going to give in to, um, you know, negativism and saying, you know, we can’t solve these things.

But like, I, I think it’s just a really, really just kind of stark reminder of like how hard this work is. And obviously that’s, that’s why we talk to the people we do and hear their stories because it is hard. And I, you know, so if you’re feeling like, you know, a little, you know, like, what’s it all for?

Whatever. It’s like, no, it’s still really important, but it’s also really hard. And you just have to keep going and looking for those new solutions.

Right. And, but just be honest with like, man, it is, it is tough.

[Sheldon Young]
Boy, I, I, this, this, this topic makes me marinate a little bit and think about this, right? Because we are seeing it happen in other places. I mean, even the EU, they pass, they pass this big set of regulations and rules and strict stuff.

And then they got a lot of put, immediately got a lot of pushback.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
And immediately then said, Oh, sorry, we retract some of this. Right. They pull back.

They, they, they literally pulled some of the rules back, uh, largely for, for some of the smaller companies that were affected by it. Still, I think in general, they pulled back. And so, you know, that’s a little like, oh man, but then you’re like, maybe that’s just smarter because one of the things I think we have to worry about as people that really want sustainability to work.

Right. We really want things to improve. It’s that balance between burning platform and burning the platform.

Right. Right. Yeah.

It’s because I think some, again, I’m just, I’m, I’m going to throw some hypothesis here, folks. This isn’t really meant to be a, uh, a statement of fact or criticism. Some people I think experience sustainability fatigue.

[Jason Moreau]
Oh yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Right. And maybe it’s not as controversial as I thought it was by saying it, but it’s like, I think having strong real goals is necessary.

And you know, that whole, you know, we can’t be the 1.5 degrees Celsius rise of the, all that stuff is important to think about important ways. And lots of people laid down big goals, huge goals of I’m cutting, you know, we’re going to be net zero by X and we’re going to be a completely carbon free by Y and X, Y, Z, A, B, C, particularly the emissions ones. Those were the ones that everyone looked at and everyone threw the gauntlet down at.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
And then a lot of people are getting, realize they’re getting really close to that date and they aren’t close. Yeah. They’re making progress.

They aren’t close. And we talk about this in other episodes, I know, but to me, this is so important that we don’t try to candy coat it with fluff and excuses or anything. It’s just like, just honestly, I think if we’re just real about it, it’s better.

It’s just better. Now, again, it’s a Sheldon Young speaking for Sheldon Young. I’m not speaking for anyone else.

I’m not speaking for Alfa Laval. I’m not speaking for anyone. I think I feel the conversations and dialogue and progress is truly going to be better if we’re real about the difficulty of achieving some of these things and turning our attention on where we can move the needle easier.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
We had this dialogue on the scope three, scope one, scope two and all that. Right. Scope three is the biggest emission for most companies.

Right. It’s also the hardest to move. Right.

And you have the least influence over it. And you can try. I want everyone to try and make those differences.

Some are making great progress. Cheers to all of you. But let’s realize it’s not going to be a cakewalk and don’t forget about the things you have right directly in your control and spend some time on those.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
Even though they are as big, there’s still wins. Right. And you have to balance it because we only have X amount of time in a day, in a week, in a month.

But we have to be real about and not try to paint it over as rainbows and unicorns if it’s not rainbows and unicorns. And I know it’s difficult because we all want to have positive discussions. But Patagonia, bless them again.

Right. They’re able to step up and say, OK, guess what? We’re probably working as hard as anyone else out there and it’s still not happening.

So I don’t know.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. Well, I think here’s what I think. So here’s what we’re going to do about it, though.

Right. Exactly. And also, I think it ties into what you said at the top, right, in terms of the trends and the changing expectations or framing of the CSO role.

I think I think the two are sort of intrinsically there where it’s. Yeah. Problems not getting any easier, but right, not acknowledging that makes your makes the makes tackling the problem twice as hard.

So you just have to acknowledge the reality of the situation and then, yeah, keep getting to work.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. Yeah. But to put the final, positive spin on this thing, I’m excited about that.

I like real talk. I don’t like candy coats.

[Jason Moreau]
Right.

[Sheldon Young]
Unless it’s not an M&M, then I’m all for it.

[Jason Moreau]
Only read M&Ms, according to your writer.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. I’m sorry. I probably shouldn’t say it, but it only was a candy coated chocolate.

I don’t eat any candy coated chocolate, just by the way.

[Jason Moreau]
That’s true.

[Sheldon Young]
I’ve not seen anything. It’s true. It’s true.

I’m not beholden to any.

[Jason Moreau]
Not picky.

[Sheldon Young]
Not picky. No, but I find it refreshing. I find it reinvigorating.

Right. When someone is like, look, here’s the here is the truth. Here is what is the reality of the situation is.

It doesn’t mean we give up. It means we just have to work differently or focus on other things. And I feel like I’m Ted Lasso or something doing the speech in the locker room.

But it’s like, look, if we won every time, we aren’t working hard enough. Right. We’re not working on the right things.

Right. Because if you win every time, you’re probably forgetting the hard stuff.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
I like the hard stuff. Sometimes we’re not winning. And OK, fine.

Let’s pick some easy stuff and win there again. And then let’s reposition. How do we go after the hard stuff?

Let’s rethink it.

[Jason Moreau]
Yep.

[Sheldon Young]
And I think if we go in with that attitude, that trend is going to be much more appreciated in the long run than trying to just say, you know, just brush over it and say, oh, we have new goals now. Right.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
We have the goals now. Oh, thanks. OK.

[Jason Moreau]
Just move the goal post if you didn’t like how you were doing. Yeah.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. And again, I’m OK moving the goal post. Right.

As long as it’s for a reason.

[Jason Moreau]
Exactly.

[Sheldon Young]
And it wasn’t because we didn’t try. Exactly. Talk about try.

Talk about how you tried. I think that refreshing real talk is going to be, I think, so important for credibility, for lack of a better term.

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah. That’s why we’re going to keep dishing it out here on the podcast this year.

[Sheldon Young]
We dish it. We dish it out here on the podcast. But anyways, I hope this was an interesting episode for folks.

I like to think about trends. I like to think about what to consider and what to look out for and how do I make sustainability real in my organization by kind of bolting onto some of these trends and learning from them. That’s the reason I wanted to talk about it.

I hope I hope you all found it interesting. And but you’re always willing to give us feedback.

[Jason Moreau]
We’ll take that. You disagree. Tell us.

Email us.

[Sheldon Young]
Yeah. I mean, I’ll probably delete the email immediately, but I appreciate you trying. No, no.

In all seriousness, I love to hear from folks. Send us your ideas or if you had an opinion about what we talked about, send it our way. And maybe when we have our our web page up, Jason, not to put you on the spot, but maybe we have a place where people can have dialogue around this stuff.

I like it. I like it. I like it too.

Right. Put it on the list. You can reach out to nofootprints.podcast@alfalaval.com.

And with that, I think we need to end the show. Jason, what do you say?

[Jason Moreau]
Yeah, that’s a good. This is a good stopping point.

[Sheldon Young]
Good place to end. Yes, it’s real talk. Just real talk.

[Jason Moreau]
I’m ending the show. You said five. We delivered five.

[Sheldon Young]
I delivered five.

[Jason Moreau]
That’s it. Real talk.

[Sheldon Young]
That’s it. That is it. Real talk.

I said I’m ending the show. I’m only ending the episode. I’m not ending the show.

Just to be clear. So in case you decided to go find someone else to show. All right.

Goodbye, my friend.

[Jason Moreau]
Bye. Until next time.

[Sheldon Young]
Our guests come from many industries and companies as we’re talking about how the world makes sustainability real. Our company, Alfa Laval, is a global supplier of process solutions. So it’s very possible that the organizations our guests are with may use Alfa Laval or even our competitors’ products.

This does not mean that we, the hosts or Alfa Laval, are endorsing any of the company’s guests or the specific ideas that we discuss.