Company Culture and Sustainability

Transcript

Sheldon Young
Welcome to No Footprints, a podcast brought to you by Alfa Laval. I’m Sheldon Young.

Jason Moreau
And I’m Jason Moreau.

Sheldon Young
We’re here to talk about impact and to share the efforts and people behind making sustainability real. Hello again, my friend. Another episode.

Jason Moreau
Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Crowds. Yeah.

The crowds just keep begging for more.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. Our inbox runneth over with, uh, yeah, we have an inbox.

Sheldon Young
Oh dear. Oh yeah.

Jason Moreau
I should probably check that. Yeah. That thing.

Yeah. No, uh, yeah. No.

You know what? If nothing else, it’s an excuse to chat with you and that’s always a good thing. But you know what?

I don’t think it’s, I don’t think we’re just doing that. I think we’re putting good things out there.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. We do. We do.

We do. Uh, so what’s new in, uh, in your world in terms of, uh, sustainability?

Jason Moreau
You know what? Um, I’m going to go simple and basically just say that I am very excited, weather permitting to go partake in the annual Hanover tomato festival and nosh on some delicious local and well-known produce. Ooh.

Sheldon Young
What you should do when you’re up there, if you’re, if you run, if you talk to any of the farmers and stuff, ask them about regenerative agriculture and if they’re using it.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I will report back.

Sheldon Young
That’s your assignment. That is your assignment.

Jason Moreau
And to eat my face off. But yes, I can do both. Yes.

I can do both at the same time.

Sheldon Young
Go eat all the regenerative tomatoes that you want. That’s right. Yeah.

That’s right. How about you? Well, I’m excited because, um, you know, we have decided that we will be attending climate week in New York city and, uh, I’m very excited about spoiler alert, man.

I thought a little bit, not a little bit, just to, you know, I’m, it’s, I’m just letting people know I’m not giving away the farm yet that, uh, you know, we’ll, we’ll be attending and, uh, and I’m excited about it because it’s such an important event in the sustainability space. Um, it’s a chance for us to kind of, uh, dive deeper to, to learn more, to, to meet more people in that space and, and to frankly, you know, our organization, we are plugged in. We’ve been plugged in this sustainability for 140 years, but this is a different way.

This is a different way to plug in. We’ve been doing it through the processing and the, the work that we do and the problems we solve. Well, now it’s a great way for us to go and plug into the bigger narrative and to kind of, to do more.

And I guess that we’ve Alfa Laval people have been going to climate week in the past. It’s as you, you and I are doing it now to, to plug in a different, even a different angle. Right.

And, uh, I’m excited to go see what we learn, uh, up there and, uh, to hopefully be a part of the conversation. I think, um, you know, we will certainly be, you know, I guess I will give a little more of a spoiler. We will certainly be trying to do some episode material up there that we can, that we can utilize.

Uh, we won’t tell exactly what yet, but, uh, yep. I’m excited about that for sure. And do we get to one of our past guests here?

Again, we didn’t even know you and I didn’t even know, where do we start with climate week? What do we do now? What are our past guests?

Uh, Caroline, uh, uh, Cotto helped us out a lot and gave us some advice and people to talk to. And it’s been incredibly helpful. So thank you Caroline for that.

Jason Moreau
Yup. Yeah. I’m looking forward to that.

Never been.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully it’s going to be overwhelming, but it’s also going to be really inspiring.

I hope. And, uh, that, that is my excitement, uh, around sustainability this week.

Jason Moreau
Good one. Yeah. I still think that tomatoes win for now.

Sheldon Young
I think, I think maybe you got me on that one, but we will eat lots of tomatoes on pizza slices up there. I am sure. Pretty sure that’s true.

Jason Moreau
Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Yeah. All right.

So this week we are going to talk about, uh, kind of culture, uh, and it’s an impact on a sustainability, uh, journey. I think it’s an important topic because it really does matter. Um, the first, I think, you know, I’ll ask you, Jason, you know, when I say the word culture, you know, that could mean lots of things.

It can get very amorphous. What does it mean to you? What, what do you think it means?

Jason Moreau
Uh, I, I tried to find this because I read it or I heard it once. And so I’m going to say the thing that I remember, but I, I have no attribution for it. That’s okay.

So, but I heard somebody described culture once as, um, the shadow of all of your events, like all of the things that you do, culture is the shadow of it. Right. And so it’s interesting metaphor.

Yeah. And the metaphor being that like, you can’t really grab culture directly. It’s, it’s a, it’s an emergent property of all the choices that you make.

And so to realize that it, it, it is there, it, it casts a, right. It casts a shadow on these other things, big or small. Um, but that it’s, it’s sort of, it’s an, it’s a, like I say, yeah, like a, a secondary property.

Uh, and I, I kind of liked that because it meant that like, you don’t really focus on it directly. You focus on sort of doing the right things for the right reasons. And then as a by-product of that, the culture develops.

Sheldon Young
Interesting. I think it’s, uh, it’s certainly circular, right? I think you start out inspired to want to have a certain kind of culture.

Yeah. Um, you know, I think most leaders will say, Hey, I want to build a culture of X. Uh, then you ask yourself, okay, what are the ways that we want to operate and what are the principles by which we will operate?

And then executing on said principles, uh, that is the, the culture is the result of that. I love the term you use the shadow. I think it’s a really good metaphor because your, your actions and behaviors and strategies, all that stuff kind of blend together into choices that you make decisions that you make and actions or don’t make, or don’t make just as relevant.

Non-action is an action. Um, and it’s the non-negotiables that you lay out on that journey. It’s okay.

These are the things that are non-negotiable for us as a, as a group of people or as an organization. And when things come up, we point at that and we say, okay, I, this is how we said we’re going to be and whether you follow that guidance or not, we’ll determine the outcome, which is your culture. Right.

Yeah. And so, uh, yeah. I mean, what I love about when I think about culture, you know, to me, you know, how do you make, again, this podcast about how do you make sustainability real?

First and foremost, if you want to have a sustainable, sustainability focused culture, you have to build it in. You have to say the decisions we make will support a more sustainable agenda. Uh, you know, when we make purchasing decisions and decide what materials we’re going to use and how we treat our, our neighbors and our environment, those have to be in alignment with sustainability in order for you to have that, uh, lead to a more sustainable outcome.

And I think it’s critically important that your language and the, um, the behaviors and the, honestly, the way you make it visible to your employees and the public, uh, are going to determine whether that’s successful or not. Right. Uh, when you have those important meetings, uh, and you’re, you’re in the decision-making process, does sustainability naturally flow into the conversation, right?

And if it doesn’t, again, sometimes to get the culture you want, you have to kind of, I’m going to say fumble through it a while. Yeah. Uh, because you need to make it habit, right?

And so if you’re trying to change a piece of culture, you have to consciously interject it into, uh, those interactions, those behaviors, those, uh, those decisions and make it part of the conversation. Even if it’s a little uncomfortable and weird at first, until finally it becomes second hat. And to me, when something becomes second hat, that is culture.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I don’t think hardly anybody starts at this point with a, with a blank piece of paper, right?

Like most of us work at, uh, or an organization where there’s an existing culture. And so if that isn’t where it needs to be from a sustainability standpoint, then it absolutely needs to sort of be this sort of, uh, process of behavior change, making it more visible. And yeah, there’s absolutely going to be this, this, this feeling of like, uh, this isn’t, we’re not quite where we want to be and we’re leaving the thing we’ve always known.

And that, that always feels weird for people, but yeah, I, I do think it, it, it needs to be intentional or it’s not going to change, right? Like it’s, it’s just because it’s easier to keep doing what you’re doing.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. And change can sometimes be uncomfortable and hard. And, but I think anyone that has had the lead in a culture that has tried to change is going to recognize that, uh, it’s just how important is that change to you, right?

Is it important to you to be sustainable? It’s important you to, to contribute to the, you know, the UN sustainable development goals and make that part of who you are. If it is, then, you know, that’s how you do it.

You interject it, you, you practice it, you repeat and you begin, it then becomes natural to you. Uh, and it’s more than just strategy, right? I know strategy is an important part of any business and it’s an important part of laying out what you want to do and be.

Sustainability should be part of your strategy, but it’s not just a checklist. It’s not just, okay, we’re going to do this checklist of things. It’s a mindset, right?

It is a way of operating. Uh, I, I, I’m an example person, so I wrote down a couple of examples, like maybe I can’t remember. I think we’ve maybe used this one before, Patagonia, uh, walk in the walk, walk in the talk, right?

Um.

Jason Moreau
Definitely come up. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Certainly like they promote and say, look, we would rather you repair your clothing than buy new clothing from us. That’s counterintuitive to a clothing company, right? Some would dare say pretty extreme.

Yeah, exactly. But again, it’s like, what do we really stand for? We want to make good.

They want to make good clothes. Again, I have no, no tie to Patagonia folks. It’s just, you know, I respect them as a, as a company and how, you know, we are going to really stand up for what we believe in.

It’s like, we want to use as little material as we can. How do we do that? Well, if you repair versus replace, that’s more sustainable.

So we’re going to promote that and we’re going to push that. We’re going to, we’re going to ask you to think about doing that before you buy your next vest or whatever, wherever they’re selling. Uh, so again, that is making sustainability systematic, systemic in your culture.

Uh, another thing they do again, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s the simple stuff, right? Uh, donating 1% of their sales to environmental causes, you know? Okay.

Don’t have to do that, but they’ve chosen to do that as a part of who they are, no matter what those sales are. Right. And you know, but it’s exciting when, when you run into companies or people or even pockets of, of organizations that, uh, do that.

And it’s exciting, you know, when you’re sitting in a meeting and you start talking about a project or start talking about doing some, well, what’s, what about when someone says, what about the sustainability impact of that? It’s fun to hear that because you know, you’ve walked into a culture that puts it into the mix. It’s part of their sauce, part of their secret sauce.

And, um, it’s so cool to see it when that happens.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. And I would say, I think the Patagonia example is really good, but I also, my guess is that that’s a very top down type of culture, at least from what I’ve read. Uh, and, and I think it’s important to point out that, uh, you can impact culture from the bottom up too.

Right. Right. Sometimes depending on the existing culture, like we’re saying, like whatever that, that default is, you know, you might be swimming against the current, but you can make change and you can make impact and that’s a really important point.

Sheldon Young
Really important point.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. And also when, or if you find yourself in that situation, you know, uh, develop allies, develop, you know what I mean? Like it’s much easier to make that change if you’re not the only one advocating for it, if you’re able to sort of bring other people along in to your point, influence their mindset and, and just really grassroots the whole thing.

You know? And I’ve seen it time and time again, where it’s like, wow, I didn’t, I didn’t think that would change. And then literally three people got it done.

And, uh, it, that, that to me is almost more impressive than the top down of Patagonia because I’m telling you, like. You don’t think it’s possible. And then it is, and it’s, uh, it’s, it’s inspiring.

And then, and then it becomes a virtuous kind of flywheel where other people go, oh, okay. Yeah. I’ll get on board now.

Right. Like it’s just that it’s like that first domino has to fall and then it starts going, you know?

Sheldon Young
Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, it’s so important. It’s a great point is, and I think you have more power than you think, right?

It doesn’t mean you have to go in swinging a hammer and, and, and, and a wrecking ball on your mission to make your company more sustainable. Show them that it’s good business. Prove to them that it’s good business.

Right. Cause it is. I mean, spoiler alert on that.

I mean, sustainability is good for business. Uh, you know, if it’s done, right. And.

The ability to, to, to have the yes. And mindset of, yeah, I’m going to, to, to buy something that is going to be great for my process, something that’s going to deliver a result I want. And it’s going to help the bottom line.

And at the end of the day, that’s a, it’s, it’s hard to argue against that. And so, uh, if you’re someone that is, you know, you feel like, Oh, geez, my company isn’t as sustainable as I want it to be change it, make it be the change. You want to be, I know I didn’t make that up, but it’s certainly one that, that we’ve heard before.

Right. And, you know, bring it up, ask curious questions. I mean, Matt talked about that.

And when we had him last time here, you know, be curious. And then, you know, we do that here in our company as well. It’s one of our mantras, like be curious.

Um, and ask questions about sustainability, um, and have that conversation. Right. For sure.

But I mean, we, you just mentioned an important aspect of it, though, the, the, the top-down aspect of it. Yes. It’d be, it’s great to be able to come from the grassroots and those are often stronger, frankly.

If you’re able to build it in the grassroots and it becomes something that management can’t ignore, frankly, it’s like, Oh, geez, they’ve shown us it’s a good idea. Yeah. We’re going to do that.

Um, but having a top-down approach as well can be very powerful, right? Particularly if they recognize that, you know, Hey, we can make sustainability real here, um, by, by actually implementing some of these things. And so the ability to remove barriers.

Um, is, is something that, um, a strong leadership culture on sustainability can do, right. It takes those big barriers out of the way it, uh, allows you to say it’s a priority. And so it’s going to, it’s going to take precedent over other things.

Right. Uh, an example here, another example I pulled that was, um, a former CEO of a company called Unilever, a big, big company that, uh, does a lot of consumer product goods. Uh, and it was, his name was Paul Pullman.

He said, well, what are the things that doesn’t allow us to focus on sustainability is the fact that we’re, we operate focused on the, what we’re doing this quarter. Well, he limited, eliminated quarterly reporting. He says, we’re going to focus on long-term.

We’re going to focus on the annual, at least the annual. That’s what we’re doing, right? Eliminate the quarterly.

We’re just going to focus on longer term mindset. And that allows us to take sustainability and things like that. Again, not sure it was the only reason he did it, but when you have a longer stage mindset, you’re able to take sustainability more into account.

Cause it’s not just about, okay, I got to make X dollars this quarter, or I got to do that. I can think a little bit longer. Right.

So I thought that was really inspiring to, to, to see as well. Uh, and by doing that, they also did this, this, uh, uh, sustainable living plan that kind of decoupled growth from environmental impact, environmental impact was completely decoupled from growth objectives, right? It’s a completely separate thing.

So it’s interesting. I re I recommend reading a little bit more about it. I really cut short there what it is, but you see examples of that top down approach and it’s really interesting.

I mean, um, to, to, to see it when, when a leader says sustainable is important. This is how we’re going to do it.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think, I mean, that’s a great example, but it’s also an example of something only a leader could control, right?

Like that’s, you know, one or two people in the company could kind of make that call. So I think it’s, that’s great when that happens, but like, if you’re an average person and you’re not that one person in the company realize like, well, I can’t impact that, but I can impact maybe these five other things. And I’m going to, I’m going to do what’s in my locus of control, you know, and focus on that.

And I think when you do that, you usually get farther. And then that’s a proof point to those people in leadership of like, Hey, you know, I don’t, I don’t have half the, you know, mojo you have to make these big calls I’m doing this right. Like, and it’s like, yeah, what more can we do?

It become, it becomes both that proof point, but also that like, you know, competitive kind of thing of like, what else, what else could we be doing?

Sheldon Young
You know, for sure. And like I said, none of these things have to be major decisions either. It’s like, right.

You can, again, always follow your company protocols. That’s my disclaimer on this thing, I guess. But in terms of, no, I mean, seriously, it’s like you, we have, we have to say, Oh, well, yeah, you know, I have to live in within the rules and box.

Well, yes, we do. But it doesn’t mean you can’t have asked those curious questions. Does it mean you can’t start a dialogue around things like sustainability and things that are also important?

And, you know, Hey, has anyone ever asked, do our stakeholders care? You know, do they care? Do they, do they think it’s important?

And if no one’s asked that question, well, can, maybe that’s the step, right? Maybe that’s the step is maybe we need to dive in and understand that more because every organization should be looking at, Hey, my, are, am I doing things that are important to the stakeholders of this organization? And, you know, learn a little bit about it and be bold.

That’s I guess my making sustainability real is like, you know, empower people to, to kind of be a part of the solution there and not to fear, you know, asking for change or, or discussing change. And then as a leader yourself, be bold, right? Sustainability can be very good business.

And so be bold in decisions and don’t be afraid to, to pursue an agenda that gives you both great productivity, profitability, and a better outcome for a sustainable future.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I echo all that. And my only ad is be open and, um, connect with other people outside of your organization, um, ideally in the, in the industry, but if not, you know, I mean, I think part of what we’re doing here is like showcasing all of these people who are working in sustainability and all of these really interesting ways and a common thread that I think comes through all of them is that they reach out and ask questions to other people, right? Like that, that understanding of like, we don’t have it all figured out here.

Who might, who might be a good resource to ask? Um, I think is, is really key and could be that unlock for your own organization, right? Like just one or two interesting ideas, or if they point you to a resource or even just give you that encouragement of, yeah, no, it can be really hard to get these things off the ground, but once you do, it’s worth it, right?

Like, again, find, find those allies and hopefully they’re in the organization, but if not, remember that there’s, there’s other people outside of that organization who I am a hundred percent sure will be there to support you with resources, with information, or even just encouragement. So yeah, don’t be afraid to reach out.

Sheldon Young
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And you make some other interesting points here, Jason, in terms of like, you know, one of the things about a culture that determines how successful change is and how successful, uh, things like sustainability journeys are, is communication, right?

And, uh, the ability to kind of tell that story in an impactful way. So I’m going to turn, turn to you a little bit, ask you a couple of questions. And so if someone wants to use storytelling and communications to kind of make sustainability real, what are some methods that people can use to communicate that to strength and strengthen the culture, what makes people kind of engaged and what makes it stick?

Jason Moreau
So this is if you’re, so context is, is important. I don’t know in an organization that’s maybe, you know, from a

Sheldon Young
sustainability standpoint, put it from that perspective, like you’re trying to, to, to move your sustainability journey forward, let’s even if you’re a leader in the organization, okay, look, we want to be a more sustainable organization, how do you communicate that down so that it sticks and that it resonates, you know, as opposed to just sending, you know, the edict down from, from email to stuff like that.

What kind of things can be done to get people on board to a change journey towards sustainability? How about that? Is that a little bit better?

Jason Moreau
Yes.

Sheldon Young
Okay.

Jason Moreau
I would say, thank you so much.

Sheldon Young
My, my way through that one.

Jason Moreau
Well, yeah, no, I, I feel like, um, from a marketing standpoint or communication standpoint, he, you’re the best foot forward is to always be curious and assume that whatever you’re thinking probably isn’t the best answer. And so going and asking people actually, like, what do they care about? What problems are not problems?

What gaps are there from a sustainability standpoint? Um, so really crowdsourcing it at the beginning, uh, for lack of a better word, um, internally can be really, really powerful, um, depending on the people, depending on how big a gap there is between what people want and what the current reality is. I mean, be prepared maybe for some spicy conversation, but I think that’s part of it, right?

Like, I think you want everybody’s. Sort of current position on the table and what they would like. And then from there you can map out, well, what’s that next step, right?

Like, what are we able to do in terms of time and budget to move forward and invite them to participate? Right. Like, I think that’s the other big piece of it.

Like if you’re talking about internal culture and it has to be real though, right, like, so if you ask people their opinion and what we can do to be better and you allow people to be passionate and want to be part of that change, then you need to harness that. Um, the worst thing I see happens is when people participate in that way. And then it’s just sort of a check the box exercise.

They don’t see that change happening. They don’t feel like they’re now part of whatever the implementation is on the backside of that. And so I think you want to crowdsource that, but then you also want to bring those people along for the ride and continue to sort of like loop them in.

Ask them to volunteer, ask them to be, you know, can you do, can you take this little piece of the project, whatever the case is there, because you’re automatically trying to find, I mean, by dint of doing that you are identifying who internally could be your allies and part of your tribe. And you want to maintain that, right? Like you don’t want to squash that.

So that’s just where my mind goes and sort of organizationally what I’ve seen done really well at other places I’ve been at and also where it was not done well, and that was, that was not a good scene.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Yeah. You and I have both been part of different organizations before. I guess I feel very, again, I feel very fortunate that where we are now here at Alpha LaBelle, it’s like your sustainability is kind of, it is built into our DNA and it’s baked in.

And so that’s just a, it’s, it’s fun that we don’t have to deal with that. And, but you know, I got, it’s kind of a privilege, quite honestly.

Jason Moreau
It is, it is. Talking to people at other places, it, it, it is more of a, you know, we’re pushing a rock up a Hill, right. And so it, I really feel for it.

So, you know, we have the privilege of, of doing this podcast, right. Because our company is so invested in sustainability. Yeah.

So yeah, just recognizing that that’s not the case everywhere and no, it can be hard, but it, it is doable.

Sheldon Young
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s a, again, it’s, it comes from all these things we’ve just discussed around, how do you make it real? I think they’re all relevant.

I mean, I think part of it’s, it’s living our own experiences. You know, as I look around Alpha LaBelle, it does come top down, but it also is built in our grassroots. You know, we think about things like that.

It’s, it’s the, you know, all the solutions that we do, it’s got that kind of baked in. And so, but it didn’t happen overnight. You know, it’s, it’s been happening for 140 years here.

How do you, how do you make it move forward? I mean, it’s been fun. I have definitely engaged with lots of organizations and you see each one is at a different stage.

Every one of them, some are just starting. Some are in the middle of it. We talked to Matt last time.

They’re kind of, they’re, they’re ahead of their curve now. They get the, you know, the last decade or so, whatever it is, they started this. And you just continue to see it is very possible and it’s very doable and it’s very real and it’s very valuable.

All those things are true. And so just to kind of, to put a bow on it, you know, I think it’s a really interesting topic that the importance of culture and making it and making the whole thing stick and work. You know, it’s not just about what’s written down.

It’s about what you do, right? It’s about how you live every day. And you can control a lot of that on your own, right?

How do you, how, how do you live the example you set and how do you bring that mindset to your, your work and your life will determine at least in your little sphere of influence, the, the sustainability outcome that you achieve yourself. Well said. Oh, thank you.

It just kind of came out of my mouth. I don’t know what happened there. I may, I may have blacked out words.

That’s how words work. That’s how words work with it. Uh, no.

All right. Well, let’s, let’s wrap this up, Jason. I get it.

I got to thank you all for joining us on this episode. No footprints. We’d love to hear about your thoughts, ideas.

If you have a great guest that’s making sustainability real, have them reach out to us, nofootprints.podcasts@alfalaval.com. Um, and, uh, with that, Jason, I say goodbye to you, my friend.

Jason Moreau
Until next time.

Sheldon Young
Until next time. Our guests come from many industries and companies, as we’re talking about how the world makes sustainability real. Our company Alfa Laval is a global supplier of process solutions.

So it’s very possible that the organizations our guests are with may use Alfa Laval or even our competitors’ products. This does not mean that we, the hosts or Alfa Laval are endorsing any of the companies, guests, or the specific ideas that we discuss.