Interview with Mat Bartkowiak

Transcript

Sheldon Young
Welcome to No Footprints, a podcast brought to you by Alfa Laval. I’m Sheldon Young.

Jason Moreau
And I’m Jason Moreau.

Sheldon Young
We’re here to talk about impact and to share the efforts and people behind making sustainability real. Hello again, my friend. Here we are.

Jason Moreau
Hello. Here we are. It’s always exciting.

Sheldon Young
It’s always exciting. Another episode. This is getting old hat now.

I mean, we’re in the groove now. We’ve been doing several episodes and I feel like this is just kind of our routine and I’m happy to bring this, bring sustainability insights and things to the world. It’s a fun, it’s a fun little job.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. It’s routine, but still exciting. Like we haven’t hit that point where it’s routine and you’re starting to like question your life choices.

So yeah, we’re, we’re in the good, we’re going to, we’re in the good phase. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Episode 640. Hi again. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, not there yet.

It’s not there yet.

Jason Moreau
So.

Sheldon Young
Not even close. Not even close. So sustainability topics.

So before we hop into our, our, our wonderful guest, um, I had to go, I went to, uh, well, Minneapolis, uh, this, this past week, it was the 4th of July week. We had to go up there for a wedding and we visited the, uh, Minneapolis sculpture garden and it was kind of really cool because it was kind of like sustainability meets art. Uh, it’s, it’s several, you know, a whole bunch of different sculptures and we didn’t even scratch the surface of it.

We went one of the major parts, but not the whole thing, but the whole thing is an underground, uh, 80,000 gallon cistern that they collect water. Um, and they, you know, they, so they collect like runoff from, from the park and it’s used for like irrigation at a nearby baseball field. I collect something like 4.7 million gallons a year from going to the storm sewers. Yeah. So I like to give relativity. What’s, what does that mean?

It’s, well, there’s the Olympic swimming pool. That’s 7.1 Olympic swimming pools, or it’s enough for 188,000, 10 minute showers. So one person could shower daily for over 500 years.

That’s, that’s, that’s my relativity. That’s my relativity metric right there.

Jason Moreau
Um, and then sadly, I’m, I’m more in line with the shower versus the Olympic pool.

Sheldon Young
I know the Olympic pool is like, Oh, it seems big. How big is it?

Jason Moreau
Right. Seems big on TV.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Uh, and then they also keep like natural meadowlands there, which is designed, basically it’s nature’s filter. It takes that stormwater runoff and, uh, kind of captures it from going into the Mississippi river as a runoff essentially. And, uh, they also have an old observatory there that used to be a completely closed off glass observatory, which again, expensive to heat and cool and do all the things.

So it’s now they’ve opened up the walls to it. It just kind of have the roof over it, like the glass roof, and it’s an open wall observatory. So no need to heat and cool it.

So it was pretty cool to see that kind of art meets sustainability in the wild.

Jason Moreau
That is very cool. Yeah. I love, I love when you’re in spaces where you feel that balance of form and function, and you know that both were as intentionally thoughtful and in independently, but also marrying those two things together.

Uh, those spaces are really special. That sounds like a really cool place.

Sheldon Young
It was, it was, it was kind of fun. Any, any sustainability topic from you today?

Jason Moreau
More, more so just that I feel like, uh, as we were saying, we’re kind of getting into this now. And so I feel like you’ve, uh, you’ve incepted me a little bit in the sense that now I’m, as I’m out in the world, I think about sustainability more top of mind than I think I did before. Uh, we have all of these, we have, we’ve had all these conversations.

And so the one right now is this is summertime and trying to visit more beaches here in our great state of Virginia. And so we’re looking at getting like some type of shade device for when we go to these beaches. And it’s, it’s just really interesting because again, form and function, it needs to, it needs to get provide shade.

It needs to, it needs to not blow down the beach if it gets too windy. And like, there’s all these like functional concerns, but the form of it is really interesting because there’s these new devices, um, where it’s just like one big arch think like tent poles. And then I’ll like tent fabric and it just uses the wind to basically provide that cover.

Sheldon Young
Interesting.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. The brand name is why I won’t give the brand name. Okay.

But if you walk on the beach, you’ll see that these are pretty popular now. And so from a sustainability standpoint, I was really, it was just very interesting that somebody probably looked at this and was like, well, there’s a lot of material costs and the umbrella and all this stuff manufacturing it’s, it’s way more energy and probably processes to like design your typical umbrella where this was very simple, minimal usage of materials and just as practical from a shade standpoint, and I would argue probably even easier to set up and break down. So yeah, no, it’s just interesting.

Cause I, all of a sudden I had all of this cascade of thoughts around all of that and I blame you.

Sheldon Young
Oh, that was my sustainability not to be blamed. Excellent. Your sustainability was a spite for me for in documenting your brain with sustainability.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. We don’t talk about that enough.

Sheldon Young
Yeah.

Jason Moreau
I’m motivated by spite. All my sustainability is spite. Yeah.

Sheldon Young
Sure. Why not? That’s right.

That’s right. Well, you know, it is not spiteful. Our guest.

I, I love our guests today. Uh, today’s guests I’ve known for about a year now. I met him kind of on the sustainability circuit, I guess, for lack of a better term, uh, I was actually introduced to him by one of our business leaders here at Alfa Laval, uh, full disclosure.

He is one of Alfa Laval’s channel partners for Nelson. He works for Nelson Jamison. Uh, but his focus is completely around corporate responsibility, sustainability, and food safety.

He’s a true gem of a person. Uh, very excited to interview him. Uh, I do, uh, I mentioned Nelson Jamison.

I do want to send some condolences actually out to the Nelson Jamison family. Uh, their former president and chairman, John E Nelson passed away in June. And, uh, a person well known for his devotion to promoting Nelson Jamison’s golden rule culture, his signature trademark tagline was make it a great day.

I mean, that’s the kind of person he was. And I’ve never personally met him, but I know he meant a lot to the Nelson Jamison family. So sending out some heartfelt comfort to you, uh, uh, from us here in the podcast and then Alfa Laval as well.

So, uh, just wanted to say that. And, uh, for that, I guess let’s go, uh, have a conversation with another fabulous Nelson Jamison person, Mat.

Jason Moreau
Yes.

Sheldon Young
Our guest today is Mat Bartkowiak, a former humanities professor who is now the VP of corporate responsibility and development for Nelson Jamison. Mat works with suppliers, manufacturers, customers, academic programs, regulatory theories, and others to push forward programs of mutual growth, education, and service to the food industry. He’s passionate about helping the food and beverage industry create products in a sustainable and safe way.

He also serves the board of directors of the Wisconsin Cheesemakers Association, the Wisconsin section of IFT and the Marshfield area United way, along with serving on numerous food safety advisory committees for various academic programs, it’s my pleasure to invite Mat to the no footprints podcast. Welcome my friend.

Mat Bartkowiak
Thanks so much, Sheldon. I appreciate that. I really liked that intro too, in the way that you read it, I could use that in personal appearances.

So I may take that with me.

Sheldon Young
Yeah, you should. I mean, put some theme music behind it. You got yourself a winner there, right?

Well, Mat, it’s great to see you again. I I’ve known you for a little while now and I’ve done a couple of things together and really appreciate you coming on and talking about the world you live in. Um, why don’t we just kind of start though, tell us a little bit about your journey to sustainability and how you kind of got to the role you’re in now.

Mat Bartkowiak
Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, it, it was an interesting pathway, uh, unforeseen, uh, if you will, but, uh, you know, as, as you just mentioned a minute or two ago, I, I was actually a humanities professor with the university of Wisconsin system. Seven years or so.

And, uh, just during that time, I started doing research for Nelson Jameson, which is located right here in Marshall, Wisconsin, where I’m, I’m, I’m located, I just had basically said, I have a, you know, a multidisciplinary background, happy to do any kind of research to help pay some bills, uh, to, in the meantime, and it just so happened, I think over the course of about the five years that I was doing that for Nelson Jameson, it was during the rise of the food safety modernization act. So it was a fascinating time for a guy who was writing about things like, you know, film studies and literary studies to start learning about, uh, the, the realities of food safety in the industry. Um, so I, I found myself, uh, absolutely fascinated and, uh, also really encouraged to, I think for me as a humanities professor, I often say that I was sometimes discussing some of the excesses and faults of the business community and what can happen.

And when I started working for Nelson Jameson, um, it was just this reaffirmation that, you know, this is what a business could be. Uh, so there is a, a nice kind of mixture of both, um, you know, fascination with the, uh, the topic area and also just encouraging a culture here. And that led me to, uh, originally taking over the lab products department, which was kind of an epicenter of food safety, although it lives in all of our departments, uh, from there, I was a director of strategic relationships just because I found myself enjoying being able to interact with folks and advocate for NJ again, with that, you know, idea of belief and, uh, vision behind it that I, uh, I buy into and I really support and I’m excited about. So that led into, um, you know, further discussions on, on food safety.

And finally that food safety, uh, you know, current, uh, linked me into our current corporate responsibility efforts and sustainability efforts. You know, at the end of the day, we are thinking very comprehensively about what sustainability means and how we can operate a sustainable business and what that means for all of our stakeholders that are out there. And for us, you know, food safety is a central tenant of how we can be a service and how we can contribute to things like public health and, uh, you know, uh, product quality and other concerns that are out there that are so important in terms of, uh, you know, operating, uh, in a way that is both useful, but also profitable at the same time.

And, uh, that’s kind of the way that it led in. It was then a learning process, a lot of learning about sustainability initiatives and thinking about the comprehensive nature of ESG from there. So I’d say I’m about three years into that process and continuing to learn every day.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Fantastic. I mean, uh, I want to rewind you just a little bit, tell people a bit who Nelson Jamison is.

Uh, cause, uh, you know, uh, we were familiar with you here with Alpha Value, a great partner to us, but tell us a little bit about, um, kind of what they do and the role they play, uh, in the food space and then how they play a role in sustainability.

Mat Bartkowiak
Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, Nelson Jamison is a family owned company, uh, like fourth generation of ownership now, uh, been around since 1947 and, uh, essentially, uh, we really, uh, strive to be a, a kind of one-stop shop, uh, and encompassing, um, ally, if you will, within the food industry. Uh, so we’re a wholesale distributor at the end of the day.

Um, we basically try to curate a line of products and services, uh, that’s targeted specifically at food processors. So, uh, you know, there’s, uh, um, different, you know, wholesalers out there who kind of try to be everything to everybody. Uh, we essentially just curate for the food industry.

If other folks, you know, find some use in, in working with us, that’s fantastic, but, uh, all of our efforts, our product teams, um, our product specialists, technical folks, uh, are all geared towards the food industry. So we just want to anticipate anything a customer needs, and that can be maintenance, repair, operation, laboratory, cleaning chemicals, process concerns, et cetera, packaging. Uh, but along the same lines, uh, and, you know, speaking to that, that notion of, you know, what a company could be, uh, one of the things I really enjoy is that, uh, that allyship that we strive for as well.

So, uh, above and beyond just transactional relationships, it’s about, uh, building up long-term relationships and being of service to the industry in ways in which we can, you know, raise all the boats in the Harbor, uh, at the same time. And of course, you know, food safety being such an important part of that. Uh, and when it comes to sustainability, I think, you know, we went sort of from, um, you know, just, just trying to figure it out, you know, maybe about a half a decade ago, uh, to now I, I really, uh, am proud of the way in which I think we are continuing to progressively try to align ourselves with, with different initiatives, with our customers, um, with our communities, with our employees.

To, to drive sustainability in some meaningful and authentic ways, as opposed to just thinking of this as something that we had to, you know, check up on a list to be relevant. Uh, we really embrace that idea that for a long time, uh, Nelson Jamieson and, you know, the Nelson family has been invested in doing good while we do business. Uh, so how could we marry those things?

And at the same time to, uh, build critically on, on all aspects of sustainability, so we’re building a better business, you know, and we’re building a business that a people want to do a business with, uh, and, and want to maintain long-term relationships with. And also a place that, uh, our communities, our employees and others can, you know, feel, uh, a sense of, uh, pride or, uh, positivity when it comes to our presence and, and how we fit in their lives.

Sheldon Young
It’s really great. Um, I mean, I’ve, in my experience working with you, it has been, uh, from the sustainability angle that I play here at Alpha Laval and, uh, you’re always present, it feels like, you know, which is great in the worlds that we play in over there and particularly in dairy and, and food and things like that. Uh, can you talk a little bit about, um, like how do you plug into those networks and what, when a customer looks to Nelson Jameson from a sustainability point of view, what’s the value proposition you’re bringing to them a little bit, just a little deeper on that, if you don’t mind.

Mat Bartkowiak
Uh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I think in terms of, you know, different, um, you know, worlds to consider or, you know, applications or potentials for interactions out there.

I really think of anything as a potential learning experience. So, uh, very much go in with an open heart and an open mind. And, um, also to, uh, make sure that we’re very humble in the process too.

Uh, we’re very forthright in terms of, uh, you know, putting out there that this is a learning process for us that, uh, I think if you have any absolutes out there, you know, that, uh, those are things that, you know, sound really brave and, you know, maybe, uh, attract some good headlines, but at the end of the day, I think the folks that are interested in what we’re doing are much more interested in, you know, incremental, but, uh, you know, authentic change.

And, and that’s where I think all of those interactions really come into play. Um, I, I don’t think there’s a way that we could really understand the complexity and the totality of what we’re doing with sustainability, unless we were out there talking to all of these different, uh, you know, folks in different, um, portions of the industry and beyond. I really am amazed at how, uh, either speaking to, you know, academic departments around the country or industry trade organizations, you know, the nonprofits we work with, our community organizations, our employees, et cetera, that all of those interactions and that, uh, you know, that presence that we try to have out there is, is very much a pragmatic one.

It’s about, uh, learning as much as we absolutely can. Uh, and also questioning things as much as possible. I never want to get to a place in which we are resting on our laurels when it comes to sustainability either.

Uh, so I, I think if that answers, you know, that part, that first part of the question, um, really when it comes to the value proposition, you know, there’s a multiplicity. Uh, I, I really do think that especially for customers, uh, there’s a want out there to have companies align with, you know, uh, their companies, uh, targets, metrics in terms of sustainability, but even more so, I think just value systems, uh, and, you know, understanding what’s important at the end of the day. Uh, for us, I, I think that building trust over the longterm is so much more important to us than thinking about quarterly results or if you will.

Yeah. And I think that the family ownership model, I’m very lucky to be working with allows for that, which is great. Uh, so that we can have that, that longterm view, but, you know, I mean, above and beyond being of service to customers, I think it’s just been great for us to understand how, even though as a wholesale distributor, which sometimes might seem kind of, I don’t know, wonky, how sustainable can you be as a wholesale distributor, we’ve actually learned the incredible roles that we can play within the supply chain. And, uh, to try to do the best that we can in those regards.

So I, I appreciate the fact that we’ve gotten to, especially in terms of our current customers, but with new customers too, not only get to know our current customers even further and more comprehensively based upon these discussions and these notions of value systems and, you know, what doing business good business at the end of the day means. Uh, but, uh, it also has been great to bring new customers into the fold that, uh, you know, they are understanding and seeing that there’s a company out there that, uh, really is. And, and, and again, you know, we’re not going to be perfect.

We’re going to, uh, you know, have plenty of mistakes along the way, but if I think they can see people earnestly trying to make a difference. Uh, and find new efficiencies and, uh, you know, cut out a risk wherever it possibly is. That’s really the, something sustainability does and that everybody can be on board with.

Sheldon Young
Yeah, absolutely. Um, you, you mentioned a key word there. Uh, I want to, I want to touch on supply chain.

So I know supply chain can be really important, um, to sustainability, but I think a lot of people maybe don’t know exactly how, right. So how does, uh, the supply chain and the particular role that like someone like a distributor can play in that make an impact on the sustainability footprint for someone?

Mat Bartkowiak
Yeah. You know, and, and I think it’s somewhat, um, you know, depends upon what kinds of things companies are looking for. Uh, and again, our hope is that we can anticipate, you know, numerous different, um, facets of sustainability to, to, you know, be able to speak to those things in a meaningful way.

Uh, you know, I, I think about, uh, you know, say on the environmental side, you know, working with companies, um, like alpha that, uh, are also focused on, you know, environmental, um, sustainability concerns, stewardship, um, you know, abilities for us to work with our supplier partners to advocate and develop products that are going to be a benefit when it comes to our customers, environmental, um, you know, targets and metrics, how can we do things like, you know, reduce our footprint? How can we look into, you know, saving water? How can we encourage biodiversity?

And those are all ways that, uh, you know, although some of those conversations are, you know, very well-developed and some of those conversations are very, uh, you know, undeveloped, I think our want is to make part of doing business, thinking about those things proactively as advocates for our customers. And, you know, it, it doesn’t just, um, pertain to the environmental side. When it comes to the supply chain, there’s a lot of practicalities out there that are important.

Um, we think about, uh, topics like labor exploitation, uh, you know, um, human trafficking, et cetera. And again, you know, not something that we’ve ever as a company had to deal with, thank goodness, uh, and that we don’t intend to, but, uh, the, the harsh realities of, um, you know, international trade in the way that, you know, we, uh, we obtain and, and, and sell products. We want to do everything we can to, to, uh, be working with suppliers, manufacturers, to ensure that those kinds of standards and practices and expectations are, uh, universalized as well.

And, uh, you know, it, it’s tough sometimes I think just because we don’t have, you know, I hate to use the word enforcement and I think that’s kind of a bad way to think about it. In fact, I think that, um, the more proactively we can work to together with suppliers and manufacturers to build these things up, that that’s what we’re really talking about at the end of the day. Uh, you know, I don’t want us just to be dictating sustainability standards and having suppliers and manufacturers sign off on things.

I don’t think that builds a culture of sustainability. So those abilities to look at things like labor practices, um, environmental concerns, and, and then I think to just, you know, efficiency within the market too, uh, some of the things that we’ve learned in our last materiality assessment that we’ve done is that, um, there’s a lot of, uh, you know, focus on, on topics like efficiency within the supply chain, um, you know, concerns about supply chain disruptions, working with suppliers to anticipate those, um, you know, ethics and, uh, you know, morals in terms of, um, you know, business interactions and how we can work with companies that, that we feel align with what we’re doing too. So those are just a few examples, I think, of trying to anticipate a myriad of concerns when it comes to the supply chain, but ultimately at the end of the day, we want to be a, uh, an advocate. Uh, we want to be a steward and we want to work with our supplier manufacturers to build things up organically, uh, in ways in which we can feel good about them as opposed to, uh, just, you know, throwing each other sustainability initiatives on each other, uh, and, and seeing what happens, right.

Uh, you know, who signs off or who gets to what, or, um, I, I don’t like to think of us using bold print or, uh, italics in our, our communications. It’s more so about good communication and actually, um, doing something meaningful in terms of developing new products or services. How do you build your bust?

Yeah.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. How do you, how do you tend to prioritize which, which aspects you are looking at? Right.

Because there’s so many, you mentioned you were just doing like a material assessment. Um, so like, that’s, that’s obviously one area you’ve decided to focus on, but how do you out of the entire buffet of options, how do you kind of winnow it down to like, these are the, these are the priorities at least for the next year or two, as we’re, as we’re maturing our sustainability efforts?

Mat Bartkowiak
That’s a great question. And one that I wrestle with, uh, and I think, you know, our team wrestles with, uh, in a lot of way, because, you know, there, there’s so much in the comprehensive nature of ESG that, um, it’s hard not to get behind, you know, the idea that you want to be, um, you know, efficiently, uh, and, uh, you know, doing a good job in all of those different aspects of business. I guess at the end of the day, yeah.

Materiality assessments help us, um, every two years we get a sense of what all of our stakeholders are thinking, where they see the most potential for Nelson Jameson, how we can most be of service. So that I think really does help us, uh, establish a pragmatic, um, I use pragmatic a lot today, but I guess that’s, there’s so much behind me.

Jason Moreau
You know what I mean?

Mat Bartkowiak
That that’s, that’s what, that’s what, that’s right. Absolutely. Yeah.

I’ll try to get my thesaurus out too and think about some other ones, but, uh, yeah, I, I think that does help quite a bit. Um, and we can speak to things in, in ways that are both, uh, you know, we, we try to find a good balance of, of taking on those topics, thinking critically about them, and then assigning targets and metrics where, uh, we can both create, I think, a narrative that’s encouraging and exciting, you know, in terms of what we’re doing, but also at the end of the day, just provides some, um, you know, hard support and data in terms of how well we’re doing or not doing. Uh, I, I would say we have a hard time though, just picking, you know, what to, to focus on, um, you know, in, in our hearts, if you will, uh, you know, every part, part of us wants to make a difference. So I think we have the ability to have a target and a, an aim for, you know, those two year increments, especially when we do our materiality assessments.

But, uh, I very much will admit to the fact too, that we, we keep our, our mindsets very open in terms of, oh, maybe we could pull this and maybe we could do this and part of it is just, uh, aligning with, um, you know, ways that, you know, with what we’re already doing, how can we report back on those things in a meaningful way, and that’s been fascinating to see, I, you know, for anybody starting a program out there, um, you know, I, I always advocate for people to see what are you doing already, you know, and what kind of, um, you know, sustainability practices do you actually inherently have in terms of operating a good business and we all have them.

So if you can, uh, not only take stock of those, uh, also you can discover those along the way. Uh, I’m continuously learning things from our operations team or from our employee experience team, which was formerly our human resources, uh, you know, our regulatory team, different areas of things that we’re already doing that continue to inform, uh, those, those reports and those targets too.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. That’s pretty, I mean, uh, you know, you mentioned your materiality assessment, which I’m going to say, you know, that’s a pretty, okay. That’s a more advanced kind of thing for people on their sustainability journey.

It’s it’s a, I can say, I knew a lot of people out there do haven’t even got that far yet. Right. So I want to commend you, first of all, for, for doing that process.

I think it’s, it’s, it’s really important to have it. Uh, my question on that though is like, when did you decide you were ready for that? So I’m, you know, this podcast about making sustainability real.

At some point, someone’s going to look at it and say, wow, that looks daunting or, you know, how do I go about it? What’s that point where you said, yep, it’s time.

Mat Bartkowiak
Uh, I myself, just because I got excited about it, uh, and you haven’t learned so much, Mat said it’s time. I wanted to put it out there. Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, with bells on it and everything, but honestly, I very much credit my boss and our, our leadership team with, uh, you know, I, I think instilling the idea within me that let’s make sure that we have something, you know, meaningful and impactful and that we have a, you know, infrastructure built up behind those things. Uh, I, I think it’s so easy to say we have a policy or whatever, throw it out there, and then maybe that, you know, grabs you a couple extra points with like an eco bodice or something like that, but it also doesn’t mean anything unless people are actually living it, you know, are breathing it, uh, you know, back when, um, you know, I, I was getting into, you know, food safety, especially it was really, uh, encouraged with this notion of a food safety culture, right. Within an operation that, you know, you can have the best program in the world, uh, with, um, you know, something on paper, but unless you have people that are living it, unless it’s being reaffirmed by leadership, by investments you’re making, by trainings, it doesn’t mean anything. So, uh, that, that’s what we wanted to do with the culture of sustainability too.

And I, I think it’s worked well for us. It’s, it was probably over the course of about three years or so of just learning, uh, before we really put anything out there, uh, we were quite upfront, uh, with customers, you know, you know, bids or things like that, that we’re working on a program right now. And, you know, we want to make sure that when we do it, we, we want to do it right.

Uh, and, uh, you know, it was also, um, not over-promising I, I, I find that, you know, that’s where me, where some of the cynicism can be with sustainability and, and, and the corporate world or the business world that sometimes it just seems like you’re, you’re, you’re throwing things out there. And, um, you know, the question is how much of a culture do you have behind it? Uh, so for us, it was a measured approach.

It was a, a slow approach, but you know, ultimately at the end of the day with with all of those, you know, all of those things that we could go into, that we could start taking on, that we could start focusing on, it was that process of finding out a, what we were doing already, uh, you know, what kinds of practices were out there or, uh, you know, focuses within environmental, social governance concerns that we were doing well, that we could be proud of.

Uh, you know, I think Nelson Jameson has always been a, a company focused on its employees and their wellbeing. Uh, and, and there was a great example, you know, let’s talk about the kinds of things that we’re doing, let’s, uh, let’s build that up. It, it, it’s, it’s hard not to, as we discussed, you know, not want to do everything at once, but absolutely don’t do everything at once, right?

It’s, it’s better to, I think, like I said, you know, have some incremental authentic movements than it is to put something out there that just looks sexy and you think is going to, uh, you know, take care of, uh, you know, concerns for a bit and move on because again, you’re not building that culture then. So if you do so slowly, uh, and I know that it’s frustrating because a lot of times you have people knocking on your door or, uh, you know, your email account saying we want this right as, um, what’s the, the word I’m looking for here, being as a transparent, uh, there we go about your efforts has actually garnered us a lot of interest. We still, we still get those, those rote, you know, emails coming from, um, you know, companies, maybe they’re like, okay, well, you know, we need to do this, this, this, and now, and we’ll respond.

And then they’ll come back and say, that’s great. We need you to still do this, this, and this, and, and, you know, we, we, we want to do and be, um, you know, get there as much as we can, but we’re also not just going to do things to do things. Um, we, it’s important for us to, to make sure that we’re doing the right thing for our company in the process too.

And I, I think ultimately it helps us be a better business and it will help us be a better supplier and, and partner in business.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. So it sounds like you’ve got me, obviously the materiality assessment gives you that holistic view of the organization and all the things you, uh, you could touch and what your customers care about and what all your stakeholders care about, but then you really hone in on the things that are important to you. Right.

Uh, and, and, and target that and, and, and spend, spend the time to say, okay, what can we do right now? And what are the things that are going to bring us the value that, uh, all of our stakeholders can, can, can yield. Maybe it’s something you’ve already done.

And so I love the approach. I mean, obviously I think we all get, you know, particularly if we’re in the sustainability space, get excited and want to do it all. Uh, but, uh, it’s good.

You can go back to something like that and say, okay, look, what’s our, what’s our roadmap say? What is it? Whatever our stakeholders say, then, and then prioritize based on that.

Mat Bartkowiak
Yeah. You know, and I think it’s, uh, it’s neat how taking on those things, which, you know, you were doing well can help inform, uh, things as well down the line. So for instance, we’ve always really been proud with the relationships we’ve had, we’ve had with our supplier manufacturers.

Uh, you know, it’s our, our aim to be in touch with them consistently, to be advocating for customers consistently, to be working together to build things up. And, uh, you know, in that way it helped inform us to think about, say the supply chain more. So this last week, we actually just had a meeting with all of our product departments about a sustainable supply.

And, uh, you know, we could build on things like those relationships that were there, but also start thinking about, okay, what happens if a yellow flag or red flag, um, pops up out there about, you know, a supplier manufacturer, maybe there’s something that we need to address, uh, to open communication channels and get people to feel proactive about doing that, uh, and also to make them feel empowered about, uh, you know, their role in helping to build those relationship relationships up in ways in which we can make a difference with something like, um, you know, taking on labor exploitation or taking on quality concerns, whatever the case may be.

It’s really just, um, I think reaffirmed and also, um, widen the discussions that we can have. So I love to see that, uh, you know, that progression that’s out there that, you know, these asking these questions and thinking about all these different areas has provided us ways to think differently about business, even for the people who are, I think, most entrenched and most doubtful about what something like, uh, taking on sustainability or corporate responsibility could mean.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Fantastic. I think, uh, great stuff, man.

I think, uh, lots of interesting topics here. I want to jump back quickly to one food safety is a big part of who you are and who your organization touches on. I want to make sure we tie the knot and tie the thread between sustainability and food safety.

When you hear it, it’s not necessarily like, oh, well that makes perfect sense. How do you make that make sense to someone? You say, you know, food safety is part of sustainability.

How do you explain that to them?

Mat Bartkowiak
Yeah. I think if you look at, uh, well, so for instance, we, we reference the, um, United nations, sustainable development goals, right. Uh, but also there are other, uh, different, um, you know, pathways and references that are out there, whether it’s, you know, ISO 26,000, I think it is GRI, SASB, et cetera.

Um, what, uh, what we think is, is very important here is that, uh, again, thinking about the, the totality of what it means to run a sustainable business. We have a role to play to help ensure public health, which is one of those, those key targets, um, that’s, that’s out there for the UN. Uh, but also, um, to connect it to and, and discussions that, you know, run across all those different, those, you know, different reference points.

It’s about customer welfare. It’s about customer health and safety. Uh, and, uh, it’s about, um, you know, doing things that, uh, that we have power and control over.

Uh, and that’s something that’s been really great and reaffirming. I think in a lot of ways, uh, historically companies probably wouldn’t have included food safety with their, um, you know, their, their programs or their publications or their reports, but I really do see an opportunity for the food industry right now, especially with, you know, any senses of doubt or cynicism that might be out there about food safety, you know, concerns and, you know, the public has some, um, some concerns about there in terms of the food supply and what they’re seeing and how, uh, you know, media coverage has brought so much more attention to recalls and, you know, when they walk into the market and they see what’s happening, uh, and of course, some of this is just because we’re getting better at food safety, which, you know, another topic, uh, you know, in itself, but, uh, I, I think that that is something that, um, the public could really use a good sense of understanding and reaffirmation. And what are companies that I’m, I’m trusting that I’m buying from?

What are they doing in terms of food safety? And, uh, you know, what kinds of food safety cultures have they created? What kinds of indicators can I look out for to help build that, uh, that idea that creating a safe food supply is something that everybody, you know, wants, uh, that, that everybody, um, benefits from and, uh, and ultimately, uh, you know, we have the ability to centralize, I think, not centralized.

I’ll say we have an ability to advocate and push for food safety cultures and food safety in ways through our company that we can feel really good about while also looking internally and making sure that we’re doing the same things. I mean, obviously if we’re, uh, we’re advocating for food safety cultures would be a really bad idea for us not to have one ourselves. You know?

Uh, so that’s why we do, we do things like publish our SQF scores. Um, or we have another area in which we measure and it’s not a perfect measurement, but, um, we highlight, uh, our investments in academic departments that are taking on, uh, food industry concerns. And it’s not as if, you know, those dollars make a one-to-one difference in terms of people being educated on food safety, but we’re aligning ourselves with the programs that are out there that are making sure that food safety is part and parcel of, you know, the, the ethical and moral obligations that we have within the industry to do the right thing.

And to make sure that, uh, at the end of the day, um, you know, we’re all eating food that we can be, um, you know, we can feel confident in, uh, and we don’t have to, you know, face the potential horrors of what foodborne illness is going to equate to by simply going to a grocery store or taking our kids, you know, through the drive-thru. That’s not something that, uh, we should have to contend with. And it’s something that, uh, we feel we have the power to help keep building up.

And I, I hope the food industry just, you know, thinks about it, that, uh, when it comes to public health, uh, and when it comes to product, uh, you know, security, product safety, I think that the more reaffirmation we can put out there and the more that we can, um, you know, share those things that we’re doing to make this happen, it’s remarkable every time I go to something like the International Association of Food Protection and see the immense amount of passion and dedication that’s there. And, uh, you know, that, that I think is really powerful. Uh, you know, people know that there’s, there’s folks out there that are advocating, that are pushing, uh, I think it can help a lot.

And at the end of the day too, uh, you know, if there’s, if there’s a way that we can reflect on something like, like public health within our, uh, our reporting, I think that’s absolutely huge. You know, in addition to whatever we’re doing environmentally or with our workforce, whatever the case may be, if we’re contributing to that, that’s great. Um, and also to be transparent about when things don’t go right, you know, uh, if, if, you know, there’s issues out there, let’s address them, right.

Uh, you know, this idea of pretending things didn’t happen or just, you know, moving along and, and hoping that, uh, you know, the public forgets it, it doesn’t work that well, uh, you know, those kinds of, uh, those kinds of associations can be there a long time. So let’s talk about it. Uh, let’s reflect on what kinds of things, you know, uh, were, went well or went, you know, didn’t, uh, and, and continue to build it up.

Sheldon Young
Excellent. Well, we’ve talked about a lot, my friend, I think, uh, some great topics. Thank you for, again, weaving that, that tapestry of sustainability and how it connects to all the things that you work with, I think it was incredibly well done.

And I appreciate the, uh, the thoughtful answers. It’s always, it always makes my job easy. I know what, when the, when the guest has a great, uh, a great narrative, it’s, I appreciate it.

Um, so a couple of last things, any final things you’d like to make our listeners aware of, and then where can they get ahold of you, uh, if they have questions and want to learn more?

Mat Bartkowiak
Sure. Uh, you know, there, there’s so many great resources out there and I just encourage people to use, um, as many peers within the industry as possible. Uh, Sheldon, you and I have a really good rapport in terms of bouncing things off of each other, you know, um, asking each other questions, trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t.

Uh, that there would be no Nelson Jamison sustainability, um, you know, program, unless it was, uh, you know, unless it had been for all the people that I consulted and that I built off of, you know, throughout in the industry. And I owe those people an incredible debt, but it also, um, is something that I think, you know, I, I really would encourage people to, to think of above and beyond what they’re seeing in terms of regulations or standards. Get to, you know, get out there and talk to people and, and, um, you know, look towards models that you admire and, uh, look towards, you know, programs and, uh, that, that are out there that you think are great.

And there’s, you know, several that I’ve referenced over the years that have been just absolutely terrific. And if folks want to check out, say our corporate responsibility report, maybe we could share a link or something along the lines there.

Sheldon Young
Sure.

Mat Bartkowiak
Um, that, yeah, that’s, uh, that, that’s something that I would love to share and, and, uh, you know, for as many people to see and yeah, feel free to be in touch. I’m probably an overuser of LinkedIn, uh, but, uh, I I’m out there. I’m on there.

Yeah. You know, you know what I’m talking about, Sheldon? Yeah, I do.

But I’ve also problem, but it’s okay. I’ve found it’s just such a remarkable communicative tool for someone like, you know, for, for folks in what we’re doing, like it is about the peer to peer interaction and, uh, unless again, we’re building those resources and putting them out there, it’s a tough thing to do. So, uh, yeah, please, you know, feel free to reach out to me or, uh, happy to share my email address too, if we can do that, um, be glad to do that.

Uh, always, always happy to talk about sustainability and, and to pay it forward to, again, just in reverence in regard to, you know, the immense, uh, amount of, um, appreciation I have for the people who, who helped us build what we have.

Sheldon Young
Excellent. Thanks so much, man. I think, uh, appreciate this again.

And, uh, I can’t wait for people to listen to this and get some great information. So thank you for being here.

Mat Bartkowiak
Oh, I appreciate it. And thank you everybody for putting up with my long windedness, you know, coming from that professorial background, I could talk for two hours and not, you know, take a breath and occasionally I realized when, you know, people are snoozing off or something that, uh, you know, it’s not always as appreciated to them as it is for me.

Sheldon Young
Well, Mat, Mat, I had just to say, I think your answers are very pragmatic.

Mat Bartkowiak
Oh, very pragmatic. I love it. I love it.

Sheldon Young
God, now we’re going to have to do a count. Yeah.

Mat Bartkowiak
Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Sheldon Young
And we’re back. Fun times, Mat, what a wonderful person.

Jason Moreau
Yeah, that was a great conversation. I really appreciated the time with him.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. What I really like about it, it’s, um, you, you, you see sustainability kind of manifest itself many ways. And, uh, you know, through them, it’s a lot through food safety and the processes they work with and things like that, they, they really, you know, built, built a strong reputation in that space.

And so, uh, it was great to talk to him about it and kind of hear his, his take on it.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. I appreciate it too. Just, um, that I think he and Nelson Jameson sort of demonstrate like anybody anywhere can, can decide to commit to sustainability from an organizational standpoint, I, at least again, before we started talking to all these really amazing people as part of the podcast, I tended to think of sustainability either like more at the origin point or closer to the end point.

And maybe that’s just because it was more visible to me as a consumer and you kind of the, the messy middle or like the invisible middle, that black box of just steps and how does one thing get over here? Like, um, so what I really appreciated is just that they made that commitment as, as somebody that’s sort of like in the middle of the supply chain and realized like how much impact that they could have, um, with their partners and where they sit in that chain was, was really kind of cool to hear him talk about.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it as well.

The, um, hearing just their story, I reckon, you know, Mat was kind of on the ground floor. Uh, you know, they brought him on partially because of his enthusiasm around the topic and his ability to kind of, kind of just, uh, bring that enthusiasm and manifest it. Right.

Yeah. The importance of, of, of, uh, it being in an organization that thrives around that has the right culture to support it, I think is everything. And, uh, we’re going to be talking about culture, uh, more soon in, in, in our next episode, actually.

Uh, but to me, uh, his story there at Nelson Jameson was one that was really kind of cool, uh, just kind of being plugged into it, right. How do you treat it like a learning experience, you know, kind of avoiding absolutes that incremental, but truly authentic change, uh, that, you know, curiosity, you know, that’s something we talk about a lot in our, in our work Jason here at our company is it’s that, that curious mindset that is what makes sustainability real. And, uh, you know, having that and not being afraid of being bold, you know, we kind of asked him, Hey, what did you, what, what decided to have these struggles?

Well, I just got excited about it and did it. And, you know, and we didn’t, you know, it, it, it still took them multiple years, right. Cause that was important to understand as well.

He had the runway and the time to be able to say, we’re going to build a sustainable, just sustainable culture. We’re going to do this materiality assessment, but we’re going to do it right. And, you know, we’re going to take our time and when we launch it, we’re going to be thoughtful about it.

It’s going to represent our organization and it’s going to be real and it’s, it’s going to be something that’s tangible. And, and so it’s really cool to see it happen in a company like that. They’re, they’re a family owned company.

They’re not a big, massive conglomerate. Uh, so they’re actually kind of, uh, building it, you know, pulling the bootstraps up and doing it.

Jason Moreau
Yeah. And that was my, uh, that was the breadcrumb that he put in front of me. And I had to go down the trail a little bit of what is a materiality assessment.

Sheldon Young
Yes.

Jason Moreau
And what does that mean? I hadn’t, not a term I was familiar with material assessment.

Sheldon Young
I went, yeah, yeah, but I’m like, we get the point.

Jason Moreau
Yeah, no, but those aren’t, uh, those aren’t for the sort of, uh, the week and just sort of, I mean, you, you really, I mean, that’s a, it’s a mark of commitment, uh, as I understand it now. So yeah, no, the fact that they, like you say, built it, right. Right.

Like they weren’t just trying to check the box. They were, they wanted to build it right. And they wanted to build it so that it was lasting and that, that, that provided the foundation for even more sort of maturity and, and aspects that they could tackle in the future.

Sheldon Young
Yeah. A hundred, a hundred percent. And I think, uh, uh, what’s really interesting about it is, you know, what I love about materiality assessments is it really, it’s a stakeholder approach.

It’s not a, it’s not just your stockholders. It’s not just your employees. It’s not just, it is stakeholders and you ask them what Maters to you.

What is, what Maters to you is one axis and what your, what is impactful to your organization is the other. And where those, those two shall meet and have the most overlap is where you prioritize and focus your efforts. Um, typically, right.

You know, there’s obviously things like cost and all that to consider, but it gives you a roadmap. It gives you a, um, you know, a big part of a big challenge, I should say with sustainability is how do I know what things to work on and this gives a great roadmap to where you should put your attention and by doing that, you know, it’s also visible and it’s transparent. So the, the court of public opinion can say, why are you working on this thing?

Well, it’s important to our company and it’s important to our stakeholders. And so that is why, and that’s what I love about those kinds of things. And, you know, uh, him talking about a little bit, you know, it’s a, it’s a great way to make sustainability real.

It’s, you know, important to not over promise based on it, but it’s also can be a great way to be meaningful, impactful, and actionable. And so, uh, it’s a, it’s a great first major step on a sustainability journey for those that are considering starting their own.

Jason Moreau
And I could have just asked you and you would have told me that just like you did in like two minutes and instead of, I went down like this whole, like, what are these things and multiple tabs? And yeah, I like that though.

Sheldon Young
I think that’s a, I like that about you. Just, I think it’s a, you don’t, you not afraid to just go look at it yourself. Right.

And I think, uh, honestly, you’re, that’s, that’s the way to do it. You get, you can get one story from me, uh, who has learned the way I have learned, uh, perhaps, you know, if you approach it a different way, I learned from you as well. And so, uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s a double benefit.

I appreciate that you, you actually dive down on and, and research it a little bit yourself, and then we talk about it.

Jason Moreau
It’s been known to happen. Sometimes, sometimes I teach you something every once in a while.

Sheldon Young
Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut, right? As the saying goes, yes, I tease, I tease. Um, but anyways, what I’m not teasing about though is, uh, we’re done for the day here.

Uh, our next episode, we are going to dive into kind of, uh, culture and its impact on sustainability, because I think I was inspired by, by, by listening and interviewing Mat and I think that’s a great topic. Let’s talk about that next time. And so we’ll hop into that one.

Also, if you have any thoughts or ideas on the podcast, or if you have a great guest, uh, or a topic around making sustainability real, feel free to reach out to us at nofootprints.podcasts@alfalaval.com. All right, my friend, I will see you soon. And to use those out there listening, keep making sustainability real.

Jason Moreau
Bye.

Sheldon Young
Our guests come from many industries and companies, as we’re talking about how the world makes sustainability real. Our company Alfa Laval is a global supplier of process solutions.

So it’s very possible that the organizations our guests are with may use Alfa Laval or even our competitors’ products. This does not mean that we, the hosts or Alfa Laval are endorsing any of the companies, guests, or the specific ideas that we discuss.